4 ms·

I guess there are different ways to define intelligence, and I'm sure it's true that he's not as dim as the popular caricature made him out to be. But you will

I guess there are different ways to define intelligence, and I'm sure it's true that he's not as dim as the popular caricature made him out to be. But you will need a lot more than a business school anecdote to convince me that the man behind the Iraq War (launched on false pretences, with bad intelligence, and disastrous first- and second-order consequences) is a top-tier analytical intellect.

yannis7 6y ago
A few anecdotes from my side: - I had one colleague and a former boss, both staunch Democrats, who knew GW Bush from Yale; they both independently mentioned to me how likeable he is in person vs. how bad he's in his policies. This comes in contracts to Obama (who my ex-boss had met in a fundraising dinner) who's super likeable/charismatic publicly but a bit distant/aloof in person. - As for the WMDs in Iraq, it's the classic intelligence fallacy; "send my people to find evidence for X", and guess what, your minions _do_ find plenty of data to support their boss's view! This happens to all organisations from govt. to companies - and will be only made worse with "Big Data" and "AI"
- RobertoG 6y ago
  I remember another anecdote about Bush: "[..]Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government. President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. [..]" Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/a...
the-dude 6y ago
I think it boils downs to the objectives. Was the objective perhaps to reinforce US supremacy?
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  ...then it badly misfired, cost dearly in blood and treasure and seriously damaged the US's international reputation. Even if you assume Bush's motives were purely malevolent (or realpolitik if you prefer) then he was still terrible at it.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    If your reputation that important if you are obviously the biggest bully in the room? ( Bush or no Bush )
    - ForHackernews 6y ago
      Historically, yes. American soft-power has been arguably more important than its military supremacy. The whole world watches Hollywood films and buys American brands. If America becomes uncool and unpopular, that will be a loss that no number of aircraft carriers could make up for. https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/jihad-hyperpanda/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/jihad-hyperpanda/ https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/basic-concepts-1kyae https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/basic-concepts-1kyae
orange_tee 6y ago
People who rise to the top are the best at managing their own PR* but not the best as being in the seat. You can say this about everything, actually. It's also true in tech companies. Also true for the "visionaries" that HN worships. These are the ones with good enough PR sense. Lots of smarter geniuses with zero PR in the shadows who end up working for the visionaries and getting no credit for it. *I know that will sound strange to you when you think about Bush and Trump, but remember that they did attract enough supporters to win the presidency.
dazc 6y ago
Wilful blindness can effect the best of us though. Lots of smart people went along with the 'weapons of mass destruction' rhetoric at the same time despite there being little in the way of evidence to support the claim.
- collyw 6y ago
  Just like lockdowns and mask wearing.
Eupolemos 6y ago
Meta note: The comment I reply to was downvoted. I don't know why, it contributes to the discussion. Lately, I feel like there have been a lot of reddit-like dislike-downvoting here on HN. I hope the admins find a way to preserve the "maturity culture" I have always loved about HN.
- the-dude 6y ago
  Have you read the guidelines?

yannis7 6y ago

A few anecdotes from my side: - I had one colleague and a former boss, both staunch Democrats, who knew GW Bush from Yale; they both independently mentioned to me how likeable he is in person vs. how bad he's in his policies. This comes in contracts to Obama (who my ex-boss had met in a fundraising dinner) who's super likeable/charismatic publicly but a bit distant/aloof in person. - As for the WMDs in Iraq, it's the classic intelligence fallacy; "send my people to find evidence for X", and guess what, your minions _do_ find plenty of data to support their boss's view! This happens to all organisations from govt. to companies - and will be only made worse with "Big Data" and "AI"

RobertoG 6y ago
I remember another anecdote about Bush: "[..]Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government. President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. [..]" Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/a...

the-dude 6y ago

I think it boils downs to the objectives. Was the objective perhaps to reinforce US supremacy?

ForHackernews 6y ago
...then it badly misfired, cost dearly in blood and treasure and seriously damaged the US's international reputation. Even if you assume Bush's motives were purely malevolent (or realpolitik if you prefer) then he was still terrible at it.
- the-dude 6y ago
  If your reputation that important if you are obviously the biggest bully in the room? ( Bush or no Bush )
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Historically, yes. American soft-power has been arguably more important than its military supremacy. The whole world watches Hollywood films and buys American brands. If America becomes uncool and unpopular, that will be a loss that no number of aircraft carriers could make up for. https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/jihad-hyperpanda/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/jihad-hyperpanda/ https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/basic-concepts-1kyae https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/basic-concepts-1kyae

orange_tee 6y ago

People who rise to the top are the best at managing their own PR* but not the best as being in the seat. You can say this about everything, actually. It's also true in tech companies. Also true for the "visionaries" that HN worships. These are the ones with good enough PR sense. Lots of smarter geniuses with zero PR in the shadows who end up working for the visionaries and getting no credit for it. *I know that will sound strange to you when you think about Bush and Trump, but remember that they did attract enough supporters to win the presidency.

dazc 6y ago

Wilful blindness can effect the best of us though. Lots of smart people went along with the 'weapons of mass destruction' rhetoric at the same time despite there being little in the way of evidence to support the claim.

collyw 6y ago
Just like lockdowns and mask wearing.

Eupolemos 6y ago

Meta note: The comment I reply to was downvoted. I don't know why, it contributes to the discussion. Lately, I feel like there have been a lot of reddit-like dislike-downvoting here on HN. I hope the admins find a way to preserve the "maturity culture" I have always loved about HN.

the-dude 6y ago
Have you read the guidelines?