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I didn't say anything about "forcing Amazon to do business" with me. If that's your solution, it's a non-starter. I don't have a solution, but Amazon + Apple +

I didn't say anything about "forcing Amazon to do business" with me. If that's your solution, it's a non-starter. I don't have a solution, but Amazon + Apple + Google coordinating to shut down a platform for communication - even a platform that contains expression that I strongly disagree with, I might add - is a problem that requires a solution This is what I wish more people understood now rather than later, but at some point everyone will understand that it's a problem

kennywinker 6y ago
If you come up with a good solution, let us know. Until then, I’m happy to support antitrust action against apple/google/amazon/facebook - but for more pressing reasons than the deplatforming of fascists attempting to overthrow a fair and free election.
- rendall 6y ago
  > more pressing reasons than the deplatforming of fascists Hint: it's the identical problem to deplatforming BLM or Antifa or Occupy or the Proud Boys or pick anyone you agree with that annoys powerful people. "Having the better politics" will not protect you. "Oh they're just fascists" will not protect your peoples.
  - mlazos 6y ago
    Except you need to replace “annoys powerful people” with “storms the seat of our government with intent to overthrow a democratic election result” I’m fine with that being the line for companies to ban a political entity. Amazon and google aren’t randomly banning BLM for protesting in cities.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    But they have been doing that since forever and nobody was complaining. Here's a link to when twitter deleted 125,000 ISIS accounts [1] (and they had been monitoring for islam extremist content for much longer already). So I ask why this uproar now that they are deplatforming fascists? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-deletes-isis-accounts-terrorism-online https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-d...
    - kennywinker 6y ago
      I suspect the difference is more about deplatforming americans than any political view.
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  Essential Utilities are governed in many places by Universal Service Directives ensuring private companies can not willy nilly choose to deny them as they see fit for commercial or other reasons.
  - kennywinker 6y ago
    I am familiar with that concept. Good luck arguing that aws, google play, or the app store is an essential utility.
    - CRConrad 6y ago
      Not all that far from it, though, are they?
deleted 6y ago
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deadbunny 6y ago
Personally I'm fine with Google and Amazon doing this. AWS isnt the only web host and you can sideload apps on Android. Apple on the other hand is a lot more murky due to their lockdown of app installs. I don't believe they should be made to host things they don't agree with but people should not be prevented form installing whatever software they want on their own hardware. For the record I am a staunch free speech advocate but fully believe that no-one (no-company either) owes you (the royal you) a place to use your free speech on their property.
ardy42 6y ago
> I don't have a solution, but Amazon + Apple + Google coordinating to shut down a platform for communication - even a platform that contains expression that I strongly disagree with, I might add - is a problem that requires a solution Did they actually coordinate [1] or just come to similar conclusions based on similar facts, in the context of the same cultural zeitgeist? [1] e.g. Bezos, Cook, and Pichai (or subordinates) on a conference call, deciding what to do
- sellyme 6y ago
  I wouldn't describe it as coordination, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that at the very least whichever companies were slowest to react would have had their decision influenced by the earlier actions of other large companies. So there probably is somewhat of a snowball effect there.
jeofken 6y ago
Isn’t the solution to avoid cloud computing, stack overflow style?

kennywinker 6y ago

If you come up with a good solution, let us know. Until then, I’m happy to support antitrust action against apple/google/amazon/facebook - but for more pressing reasons than the deplatforming of fascists attempting to overthrow a fair and free election.

rendall 6y ago
> more pressing reasons than the deplatforming of fascists Hint: it's the identical problem to deplatforming BLM or Antifa or Occupy or the Proud Boys or pick anyone you agree with that annoys powerful people. "Having the better politics" will not protect you. "Oh they're just fascists" will not protect your peoples.
- mlazos 6y ago
  Except you need to replace “annoys powerful people” with “storms the seat of our government with intent to overthrow a democratic election result” I’m fine with that being the line for companies to ban a political entity. Amazon and google aren’t randomly banning BLM for protesting in cities.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  But they have been doing that since forever and nobody was complaining. Here's a link to when twitter deleted 125,000 ISIS accounts [1] (and they had been monitoring for islam extremist content for much longer already). So I ask why this uproar now that they are deplatforming fascists? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-deletes-isis-accounts-terrorism-online https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-d...
  - kennywinker 6y ago
    I suspect the difference is more about deplatforming americans than any political view.
PeterStuer 6y ago
Essential Utilities are governed in many places by Universal Service Directives ensuring private companies can not willy nilly choose to deny them as they see fit for commercial or other reasons.
- kennywinker 6y ago
  I am familiar with that concept. Good luck arguing that aws, google play, or the app store is an essential utility.
  - CRConrad 6y ago
    Not all that far from it, though, are they?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deadbunny 6y ago

Personally I'm fine with Google and Amazon doing this. AWS isnt the only web host and you can sideload apps on Android. Apple on the other hand is a lot more murky due to their lockdown of app installs. I don't believe they should be made to host things they don't agree with but people should not be prevented form installing whatever software they want on their own hardware. For the record I am a staunch free speech advocate but fully believe that no-one (no-company either) owes you (the royal you) a place to use your free speech on their property.

ardy42 6y ago

> I don't have a solution, but Amazon + Apple + Google coordinating to shut down a platform for communication - even a platform that contains expression that I strongly disagree with, I might add - is a problem that requires a solution Did they actually coordinate [1] or just come to similar conclusions based on similar facts, in the context of the same cultural zeitgeist? [1] e.g. Bezos, Cook, and Pichai (or subordinates) on a conference call, deciding what to do

sellyme 6y ago
I wouldn't describe it as coordination, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that at the very least whichever companies were slowest to react would have had their decision influenced by the earlier actions of other large companies. So there probably is somewhat of a snowball effect there.

jeofken 6y ago

Isn’t the solution to avoid cloud computing, stack overflow style?