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Fascinating, and also troubling (Leviathan...that makes too much sense). A counter point to that is the intriguing and optimistic Humankind: A Hopeful History b

• allturtles 6y ago
  Sorry, why is this troubling, can you explain?
  • podiki 6y ago
    In short, it is one of the most influential books on humans being inherently bad and needing force to be otherwise. To take just the top of the Wikipedia article [0]: "The work concerns the structure of society and legitimate government, and is regarded as one of the earliest and most influential examples of social contract theory. Written during the English Civil War (1642–1651), it argues for a social contract and rule by an absolute sovereign. Hobbes wrote that civil war and the brute situation of a state of nature ("the war of all against all") could be avoided only by strong, undivided government." The fact that this is the most assigned book at the "elite" institutions, and these are the people that end up in positions of corporate and government power, is troubling because of the philosophy that comes from this and what they feel they should do as power holders. Not to say this work isn't taught critically in universities or having some counterpoints elsewhere on this list, but it is still clearly influential and very much the way power is wielded. (Edit: for context, I read Leviathan at one of those universities as a student. It is still a bedrock of political philosophy.) (Edit 2: and no, please don't take this comment as some argument for "small government," it is not that at all)
    • brudgers 6y ago
      To me, Leviathan’s war-of-all-against-all fable is a metaphor for the practical reality of competing political interests. Taking it literally isn’t Hobbes’ point. Hobbes’ point is that the sole job of the sovereign is to keep the peace and that is the only criterion for judging it. As personal political practice this is hard and that hardness — the hardness of not judging the sovereign by “what is in it for me” — is what makes Leviathan philosophy. What gives it heft is what we do today not whichever explanatory fiction or “farcical aquatic ceremonies” we believe brought us here. Moreover Hobbes sets a clear moral criterion for voiding individual obligation to the sovereign...being led to the gallows. The social contract does not obligate our lives to the sovereign. This is still a radical departure from ordinary practice. The individual is not morally bound to accept the sovereign’s punishments even if those punishments are how the sovereign must keep the peace.
    • jordan_curve 6y ago
      I don’t think Hobbes’ view of the state of nature has much to do with why it’s taught at all, nor do I think it is the main thing students takeaway from the book. Most of these schools are also going to emphasize that Hobbes lived during a time of civil war and intense strife. It’s the foundational and most coherent argument for the social contract that would eventually come to define liberal democracy. I don’t think students are reading this thinking they need to “wield power.” That’s pretty disingenuous and is seems like unsubstantiated anti-elitism. Almost everyone disagrees with Hobbes’ conclusion, but understanding where exactly his argument breaks down gives very good insight into the theoretical underpinnings of western democracy.
    • wahern 6y ago
      I don't think the Leviathan is taught for the conclusions; it's taught because it established the modern framework for political science discourse; the terms of debate, so to speak. While the debate is far more sophisticated today, the emphasis on security, conflict, selfishness, and property is as strong as ever. That itself is somewhat unfortunate, but on the plus side on the list of most assigned at Ivy Leagues is #2 Imagined Communities, and #3 Republic. Regarding Imagined Communities, I can't think of any better text for introducing alternative dimensions for understanding political systems. It's not critical, but constructive; not abstract, but concrete; not idealistic, radical, or predictive, but powerfully descriptive. You have to teach Hobbes because without it, it's not possible (or at least not easy) to orient oneself in the sea of modern Western political philosophy. Imagined Communities is just smart and an unsung seminal piece of political science literature. I had no idea it had become so popular.