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This is great news for people who own an aging S or X. I have a 2017 Tesla and the screen started spazzing out on me a while back but I drive pretty often. I wi

This is great news for people who own an aging S or X. I have a 2017 Tesla and the screen started spazzing out on me a while back but I drive pretty often. I willfully purchased an upgrade that solved the problem as the new screen (MCU) doesn't have the same architecture that caused the failure. I'd be nice to be compensated for my willful upgrade but at least other people can stick it to Tesla. I LOVE the car and will stick to it that it's the best car I've ever owned but it has its flaws and hopefully this recall teaches Tesla a lesson.

echelon 6y ago
> own an aging S or X. I have a 2017 Tesla How is a three year old car aging? I have a twenty year old Honda and a six year old Toyota and both feel amazing. The Honda doesn't feel new, but it doesn't have any problems. All I have to do is change the oil. Are we switching to a disposable car model now?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > How is a three year old car aging? It shouldn't be; depending on source, average length of new car ownership in the US seems to be somewhere in the 7-9 year range, and average length of car ownership (including cars bought used) seems to be ~4 years, and average car lifespan seems to be around 15 years. A car 3-4 years from new shouldn't be “aging”.
  - Swenrekcah 6y ago
    That’s a terribly short lifespan IMO. I would have thought the shortest lifespan models to last at least 15 years. I hope they’re getting sold to Mexico or something, not scrapped.
    - curryst 6y ago
      That's likely what's happening. Owner buys it new, uses it for 7-9 years. Goes to the used market, where it gets 4 years. Maybe a second turn on the used market, and then it gets sold overseas. I hear the Middle East is a big consumer of used cars from the US. Also, "aging" is going to be heavily influenced by socioeconomic group. For some people, aesthetic damage to the paint or interior is enough to qualify as aging. Other people are more interested in the functionality, and other people are interested in whatever drives. I have friends that consider a 3 year old car to be aging, and I have friends who drive 10 year old cars and think they're just fine. I do think Teslas (and electric cars in general) are going to have an impact on the used car market, especially on the cheaper end. These batteries don't have tremendously long lifespans, and a replacement often costs as much as a cheap ICE car. I'm curious if there's going to be any profit in repairing electric cars with new batteries to sell them in Mexico or other parts of the globe, or if we're basically just going to be cutting off part of the used car market. The social impacts of developing countries losing access to a relatively cheap supply of vehicles could be bad.
    - unpolloloco 6y ago
      I think that also includes cars getting totalled early on in their lifespans? That would bring the average down appreciably!
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Average for modern cars is 20+ years, hence the 2021 change in odometer reporting regulations. It used to be 10 years before that based on older studies. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/odometer-disclosure-requirements-change https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/odometer-disclosure-req...
    - creeble 6y ago
      Your reference does not actually state anything about the average life of cars, just that reporting mileage is required for cars up to 20 years old. 20 x 13500 is 270k. I don't think that's average. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm
      - sn_master 6y ago
        Sorry about that. This is a more relevant link about the odometer ruling change with the actual statistics: https://dmvnv.com/news/20023-new-odometer-rules.htm https://dmvnv.com/news/20023-new-odometer-rules.htm "The average age of a vehicle in the U.S. is now almost 12 years, up from 7.6 years when the odometer rules were last changed in 1988."
- cynix 6y ago
  > How is a three year old car aging? That's exactly what this recall is meant to address: that the eMMC is aging faster than what is reasonable.
  - xeromal 6y ago
    This is what I meant, but the person replying to me took offense. lol
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>Are we switching to a disposable car model now? I'm afraid we have done long ago now. BMW estimates that 90% of buyers won't keep their car for longer than 3 years. They are rolling out a subscription model for features based on that fact - so you buy the car which has all the functions built-in from factory, but then pay an annual fee to unlock them. Fancy heated seats? You get a 7 day free trial, after that it's a paid unlock. Same with adaptive cruise control, adjustible suspension, sport driving modes, etc etc. Tesla might have pioneered this model but BMW is taking it all the way. And they have the gull to say it actually saves their customers money so it's a preferred option.
  - ianai 6y ago
    Bmw aren’t long term reliable and haven’t been for decades. Brands are not following their example.
  - prepend 6y ago
    That is the stupidest thing I’ve heard of. While providing some flexibility it increases the cost for customers who don’t subscribe.
  - LegitShady 6y ago
    I can't imagine buying a car with DLC/microtransactions. I wouldn't even buy one.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      Well, apparently companies love these - it means that work vehicles can all be bought in "basic" cheapest spec, but if the employee driving them wants fancy gadgets, they can pay for it from their own pocket! What's not to like?? /s
- blackbrokkoli 6y ago
  It is in Tesla-land. To keep the meme bubble Musk's created alive and justify the market cap as well as personal buying decisions, it is neccessary to create a conversation where a Tesla is always the default, the "normal". Thus: A three year old car is "aging", the steering wheel falling off is no reason to complain [0] and buying a two-ton sportscar is the ultimate pro-environment move. [0] https://preview.redd.it/canfcfr00tw41.jpg?width=551&auto=webp&s=acc5aeb9780111f8c61b73dc8deb97ad3204db58 https://preview.redd.it/canfcfr00tw41.jpg?width=551&auto=web...
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    This isn't about market cap. It's about people doing mental gymnastics and adjusting expectation to feel like they got a fair deal or didn't get screwed. People make all the same excuses every time a Tacoma frame rusts out or the 3.4 eats a timing set.
    - crmrc114 6y ago
      Dont forget the early (08ish) powerstroke models that would do #fun things like vomit their glow plugs out randomly.
    - blackbrokkoli 6y ago
      We are agreeing actually. The group you are describing are the ones who bought the car. The one I am describing are the ones who are holding Tesla shares/options and doing mental gymnastics how Tesla is still undervalued and will moon forever.
allengeorge 6y ago
It’s mind-blowing to me that a 3-year car is considered aging. Anecdote time: my parents bought a secondhand 93 Toyota Corolla that I inherited and drove until 2011. They continued using it until 2018, and got rid of it. It was still running. A few plastic internals had failed and the engine was rough, but still going. It easily had another 5ish years on it.
- riffraff 6y ago
  I owned a FIAT Punto for 13 years, did 250-300k kilometers with it and only replaced it because I had two kids and baby seats were a pain in the ass on a 3 doors model. Still worked like a charm, and it wasn't a particularly fancy model or brand. I hope GP just used "aging" meaning "not brand new", it would scare me deeply if we started replacing cars the way we do smartphones.
- creeble 6y ago
  My 2014 Tesla has 345k miles on it. The battery still gets 210 miles. Everything still works - but the eMMC chip is failing.
  - ianai 6y ago
    How hard is the eMMC to replace?
  - murrayhenson 6y ago
    That's about 49300 miles a year, or about 200 miles a day if you drive five days a week, 50 weeks out of the year. That's a lot of driving. What has pushed you to be driving so much?
    - creeble 6y ago
      They aren't my miles but for ~5k; I bought it used. It was a "perq car" for a wine tour company.
- Nition 6y ago
  I thought the same thing. The average car here (New Zealand, so not some third world country) is 14 years old.
m463 6y ago
The upgrade loses functions though - satellite antenna + radio.
- creeble 6y ago
  And FM!
fourlayers 6y ago
Let's hope they can learn from it because they really need to. At least for user's comfort!
sn_master 6y ago
> I drive pretty often How many miles does the car have? The screen isn't a mechanical part. That's the equivalent of someone trying to justify their radio failing because they drive a lot.
- bb123 6y ago
  More miles = more vibration and temperature changes
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Understood, but how many miles are we talking about here? I know plenty of cars with smaller touch screens that last the lifetime of the car (100k+ miles).
- xeromal 6y ago
  In the article it states that the memory is burned every time a car is booted up and put in drive, that means if you drive many times each day,it's going to burn up faster than if you say, drive from LA to Vegas once a month. This is according to the Feds research. Sorry if my statement wasn't clear.
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Wow, this is quite upsetting.

echelon 6y ago

> own an aging S or X. I have a 2017 Tesla How is a three year old car aging? I have a twenty year old Honda and a six year old Toyota and both feel amazing. The Honda doesn't feel new, but it doesn't have any problems. All I have to do is change the oil. Are we switching to a disposable car model now?

dragonwriter 6y ago
> How is a three year old car aging? It shouldn't be; depending on source, average length of new car ownership in the US seems to be somewhere in the 7-9 year range, and average length of car ownership (including cars bought used) seems to be ~4 years, and average car lifespan seems to be around 15 years. A car 3-4 years from new shouldn't be “aging”.
- Swenrekcah 6y ago
  That’s a terribly short lifespan IMO. I would have thought the shortest lifespan models to last at least 15 years. I hope they’re getting sold to Mexico or something, not scrapped.
  - curryst 6y ago
    That's likely what's happening. Owner buys it new, uses it for 7-9 years. Goes to the used market, where it gets 4 years. Maybe a second turn on the used market, and then it gets sold overseas. I hear the Middle East is a big consumer of used cars from the US. Also, "aging" is going to be heavily influenced by socioeconomic group. For some people, aesthetic damage to the paint or interior is enough to qualify as aging. Other people are more interested in the functionality, and other people are interested in whatever drives. I have friends that consider a 3 year old car to be aging, and I have friends who drive 10 year old cars and think they're just fine. I do think Teslas (and electric cars in general) are going to have an impact on the used car market, especially on the cheaper end. These batteries don't have tremendously long lifespans, and a replacement often costs as much as a cheap ICE car. I'm curious if there's going to be any profit in repairing electric cars with new batteries to sell them in Mexico or other parts of the globe, or if we're basically just going to be cutting off part of the used car market. The social impacts of developing countries losing access to a relatively cheap supply of vehicles could be bad.
  - unpolloloco 6y ago
    I think that also includes cars getting totalled early on in their lifespans? That would bring the average down appreciably!
- sn_master 6y ago
  Average for modern cars is 20+ years, hence the 2021 change in odometer reporting regulations. It used to be 10 years before that based on older studies. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/odometer-disclosure-requirements-change https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/odometer-disclosure-req...
  - creeble 6y ago
    Your reference does not actually state anything about the average life of cars, just that reporting mileage is required for cars up to 20 years old. 20 x 13500 is 270k. I don't think that's average. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm
    - sn_master 6y ago
      Sorry about that. This is a more relevant link about the odometer ruling change with the actual statistics: https://dmvnv.com/news/20023-new-odometer-rules.htm https://dmvnv.com/news/20023-new-odometer-rules.htm "The average age of a vehicle in the U.S. is now almost 12 years, up from 7.6 years when the odometer rules were last changed in 1988."
cynix 6y ago
> How is a three year old car aging? That's exactly what this recall is meant to address: that the eMMC is aging faster than what is reasonable.
- xeromal 6y ago
  This is what I meant, but the person replying to me took offense. lol
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gambiting 6y ago
>>Are we switching to a disposable car model now? I'm afraid we have done long ago now. BMW estimates that 90% of buyers won't keep their car for longer than 3 years. They are rolling out a subscription model for features based on that fact - so you buy the car which has all the functions built-in from factory, but then pay an annual fee to unlock them. Fancy heated seats? You get a 7 day free trial, after that it's a paid unlock. Same with adaptive cruise control, adjustible suspension, sport driving modes, etc etc. Tesla might have pioneered this model but BMW is taking it all the way. And they have the gull to say it actually saves their customers money so it's a preferred option.
- ianai 6y ago
  Bmw aren’t long term reliable and haven’t been for decades. Brands are not following their example.
- prepend 6y ago
  That is the stupidest thing I’ve heard of. While providing some flexibility it increases the cost for customers who don’t subscribe.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  I can't imagine buying a car with DLC/microtransactions. I wouldn't even buy one.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Well, apparently companies love these - it means that work vehicles can all be bought in "basic" cheapest spec, but if the employee driving them wants fancy gadgets, they can pay for it from their own pocket! What's not to like?? /s
blackbrokkoli 6y ago
It is in Tesla-land. To keep the meme bubble Musk's created alive and justify the market cap as well as personal buying decisions, it is neccessary to create a conversation where a Tesla is always the default, the "normal". Thus: A three year old car is "aging", the steering wheel falling off is no reason to complain [0] and buying a two-ton sportscar is the ultimate pro-environment move. [0] https://preview.redd.it/canfcfr00tw41.jpg?width=551&auto=webp&s=acc5aeb9780111f8c61b73dc8deb97ad3204db58 https://preview.redd.it/canfcfr00tw41.jpg?width=551&auto=web...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  This isn't about market cap. It's about people doing mental gymnastics and adjusting expectation to feel like they got a fair deal or didn't get screwed. People make all the same excuses every time a Tacoma frame rusts out or the 3.4 eats a timing set.
  - crmrc114 6y ago
    Dont forget the early (08ish) powerstroke models that would do #fun things like vomit their glow plugs out randomly.
  - blackbrokkoli 6y ago
    We are agreeing actually. The group you are describing are the ones who bought the car. The one I am describing are the ones who are holding Tesla shares/options and doing mental gymnastics how Tesla is still undervalued and will moon forever.

allengeorge 6y ago

It’s mind-blowing to me that a 3-year car is considered aging. Anecdote time: my parents bought a secondhand 93 Toyota Corolla that I inherited and drove until 2011. They continued using it until 2018, and got rid of it. It was still running. A few plastic internals had failed and the engine was rough, but still going. It easily had another 5ish years on it.

riffraff 6y ago
I owned a FIAT Punto for 13 years, did 250-300k kilometers with it and only replaced it because I had two kids and baby seats were a pain in the ass on a 3 doors model. Still worked like a charm, and it wasn't a particularly fancy model or brand. I hope GP just used "aging" meaning "not brand new", it would scare me deeply if we started replacing cars the way we do smartphones.
creeble 6y ago
My 2014 Tesla has 345k miles on it. The battery still gets 210 miles. Everything still works - but the eMMC chip is failing.
- ianai 6y ago
  How hard is the eMMC to replace?
- murrayhenson 6y ago
  That's about 49300 miles a year, or about 200 miles a day if you drive five days a week, 50 weeks out of the year. That's a lot of driving. What has pushed you to be driving so much?
  - creeble 6y ago
    They aren't my miles but for ~5k; I bought it used. It was a "perq car" for a wine tour company.
Nition 6y ago
I thought the same thing. The average car here (New Zealand, so not some third world country) is 14 years old.

m463 6y ago

The upgrade loses functions though - satellite antenna + radio.

creeble 6y ago
And FM!

fourlayers 6y ago

Let's hope they can learn from it because they really need to. At least for user's comfort!

sn_master 6y ago

> I drive pretty often How many miles does the car have? The screen isn't a mechanical part. That's the equivalent of someone trying to justify their radio failing because they drive a lot.

bb123 6y ago
More miles = more vibration and temperature changes
- sn_master 6y ago
  Understood, but how many miles are we talking about here? I know plenty of cars with smaller touch screens that last the lifetime of the car (100k+ miles).
xeromal 6y ago
In the article it states that the memory is burned every time a car is booted up and put in drive, that means if you drive many times each day,it's going to burn up faster than if you say, drive from LA to Vegas once a month. This is according to the Feds research. Sorry if my statement wasn't clear.
- sn_master 6y ago
  Wow, this is quite upsetting.