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> That's why Apple has the Developer and Public Beta releases for iOS/OSX so that external users can provide feedback. And on this occasion just like on many ot

by _qulr 6y ago

> That's why Apple has the Developer and Public Beta releases for iOS/OSX so that external users can provide feedback. And on this occasion just like on many other they will take action if necessary. Except that Apple did not take action. Firewall developers such as Little Snitch did become aware of the issue during the beta releases and gave feedback to Apple, which Apple ignored and shipped it anyway to the public. https://blog.obdev.at/a-hole-in-the-wall/ https://blog.obdev.at/a-hole-in-the-wall/

pvg 6y ago
It's reasonable not to take action based on the feedback from a developer who sells an app-level firewall - it's neither a broad nor disinterested constituency. Big Sur's been out for less than two months - for a bigass company, it's decent turnaround.
- _qulr 6y ago
  Who else would Apple take feedback from during the betas? Who else would even notice that there was a hole in the firewalls except the firewall developers?
  - pvg 6y ago
    The gigantic majority of users who are not firewall developers as well as the gigantic majority who never touches the betas both seem like sensible and important sources of feedback.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > the gigantic majority who never touches the betas I was replying to a comment that literally said, "That's why Apple has the Developer and Public Beta releases for iOS/OSX", so maybe you should argue with that comment instead of with me.
vulcan01 6y ago
> Except that Apple did not take action. Look, I don't mean to criticise. But how do you know that Apple didn't start working on a fix when they were told about it? Apple doesn't exactly say when they start working on a fix for something, or else we would have known earlier.
- _qulr 6y ago
  There was a ContentFilterExclusionList key in the /System/Library/Frameworks/NetworkExtension.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/Info.plist file. macOS 11.2 beta 2 removed the ContentFilterExclusionList. Does that take 6 months?
  - boardwaalk 6y ago
    It’s possible they were working on other changes so firewalls didn’t break the whitelisted components. They shouldn’t have been broken in the first place, but hey.
  - ilikepi 6y ago
    > Does that take 6 months? If this one change is in a pool with tens of thousands of other possible changes, and it also has to go through one or more QA cycles? Sure, why not 6 months?
    - sjwright 6y ago
      In some industries 6 months from initial report to consumer deployment would sound almost irresponsibly fast.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > Sure, why not 6 months? Because the first WWDC preview version of Big Sur was released to developers on June 22, 2020, and Big Sur was released to the public on November 12, 2020, so Apple needs to be able to fix issues identified during the beta period much quicker than in 6 months.
      - 6y ago
eyelidlessness 6y ago
To be “fair”, it’s a fairly well known secret that official feedback channels for all Apple software are basically a trash chute.
d3nj4l 6y ago
Why do you think Apple should've solved this issue immediately? I'm sure you (and the other people in this thread) care a lot about the firewall exception, but from the perspective of Apple this must've been a non-critical issue at best. I don't understand why you assume Apple should've dropped everything and fixed this as soon as it was reported. And clearly, as opposed to what you say, they did take action - otherwise they'd never have removed it.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > from the perspective of Apple this must've been a non-critical issue at best. From the perspective of Apple, this wasn't even an issue at all. It "behaves as intended". https://twitter.com/david_ddw/status/1329017113709842437 https://twitter.com/david_ddw/status/1329017113709842437 So that's why Apple didn't fix it. You don't fix something that you don't think is broken.

by _qulr 6y ago

pvg 6y ago

It's reasonable not to take action based on the feedback from a developer who sells an app-level firewall - it's neither a broad nor disinterested constituency. Big Sur's been out for less than two months - for a bigass company, it's decent turnaround.

_qulr 6y ago
Who else would Apple take feedback from during the betas? Who else would even notice that there was a hole in the firewalls except the firewall developers?
- pvg 6y ago
  The gigantic majority of users who are not firewall developers as well as the gigantic majority who never touches the betas both seem like sensible and important sources of feedback.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > the gigantic majority who never touches the betas I was replying to a comment that literally said, "That's why Apple has the Developer and Public Beta releases for iOS/OSX", so maybe you should argue with that comment instead of with me.

vulcan01 6y ago

> Except that Apple did not take action. Look, I don't mean to criticise. But how do you know that Apple didn't start working on a fix when they were told about it? Apple doesn't exactly say when they start working on a fix for something, or else we would have known earlier.

_qulr 6y ago
There was a ContentFilterExclusionList key in the /System/Library/Frameworks/NetworkExtension.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/Info.plist file. macOS 11.2 beta 2 removed the ContentFilterExclusionList. Does that take 6 months?
- boardwaalk 6y ago
  It’s possible they were working on other changes so firewalls didn’t break the whitelisted components. They shouldn’t have been broken in the first place, but hey.
- ilikepi 6y ago
  > Does that take 6 months? If this one change is in a pool with tens of thousands of other possible changes, and it also has to go through one or more QA cycles? Sure, why not 6 months?
  - sjwright 6y ago
    In some industries 6 months from initial report to consumer deployment would sound almost irresponsibly fast.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > Sure, why not 6 months? Because the first WWDC preview version of Big Sur was released to developers on June 22, 2020, and Big Sur was released to the public on November 12, 2020, so Apple needs to be able to fix issues identified during the beta period much quicker than in 6 months.
    - 6y ago

eyelidlessness 6y ago

To be “fair”, it’s a fairly well known secret that official feedback channels for all Apple software are basically a trash chute.

d3nj4l 6y ago

Why do you think Apple should've solved this issue immediately? I'm sure you (and the other people in this thread) care a lot about the firewall exception, but from the perspective of Apple this must've been a non-critical issue at best. I don't understand why you assume Apple should've dropped everything and fixed this as soon as it was reported. And clearly, as opposed to what you say, they did take action - otherwise they'd never have removed it.

_qulr 6y ago
> from the perspective of Apple this must've been a non-critical issue at best. From the perspective of Apple, this wasn't even an issue at all. It "behaves as intended". https://twitter.com/david_ddw/status/1329017113709842437 https://twitter.com/david_ddw/status/1329017113709842437 So that's why Apple didn't fix it. You don't fix something that you don't think is broken.