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I am not sure what that alludes to either. Germans and Italians save huge amounts of their income (typically, higher than the US). You still need to save for a

I am not sure what that alludes to either. Germans and Italians save huge amounts of their income (typically, higher than the US). You still need to save for a pension in almost every European economy, one isn't given to you (state pensions in Europe, even in the UK, are contribution-based). Welfare systems in Europe are not redistributive like in the US, they are typically contributory (you get out what you put in). So there is no sense in which your fundamental needs will be met irregardless of anything else. I think the issue with the US is that you have a very redistributive political economy, and so many people believe that those elements are the same everywhere AND they could have all the free healthcare...it doesn't really work that way (marginal tax rates on middle-class incomes are above 50% in some European economies, and top rates are usually lower than in the US...try doing that in the US).

pietrovismara 6y ago
> You still need to save for a pension in almost every European economy Uh, no? Pensions are contribution based but that contribution comes from taxes on your salary. Far from me to say that the system is perfect but you basically just need to work. Welfare is absolutely not contributory in Europe, it wouldn't make sense as those who need public welfare the most are those that can contribute less. Some countries like Austria have a healthcare system based on insurance, but employers are required to pay for it, students have it for free and unemployed as well.
- terwey 6y ago
  A lot of people confuse welfare with unemployment, I assume you mean that welfare isn't contribution based which is correct. In some countries, e.g. NL/DE, unemployment however is contribution based and you always pay for it (it's tacked on next to your normal taxed), which when needed is limited to 2 years based on 60% of your last net income. The idea is that you should still be able to afford your current way of living without too many compromises when you got laid off and haven't found a new job yet. In Germany for example welfare isn't great, it's around €400/mo though the state pays your rent directly.
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    That's correct, I definitely mixed up things.
- dmurray 6y ago
  > Uh, no? Pensions are contribution based but that contribution comes from taxes on your salary... Welfare is absolutely not contributory in Europe This is just incorrect. In Ireland, there is a contributory state pension [0] of up to €500 a week, which you are entitled to if you spent enough years in the workforce making tax contributions. There's also a means-tested non-contributory pension [1] of €237 per week which you are entitled to if you don't have other savings or income, such as the contributory pension. In addition to these, private pensions exist: basically savings vehicles with certain restrictions and certain tax advantages. There's a similar two-tier system for unemployment assistance and certain healthcare entitlements. I understand many other European countries have similar arrangements, despite your assertion. [0] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_contributory.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_... [1] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_...
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    > In Ireland, there is a contributory state pension [0] of up to €500 a week, which you are entitled to if you spent enough years in the workforce making tax contributions. That is exactly what I said or are we not understanding each other? Your pension comes from the taxes on your salary. The existence of private pensions doesn't deny my point. I thought it would be irrelevant to mention them as they exist everywhere.

pietrovismara 6y ago

> You still need to save for a pension in almost every European economy Uh, no? Pensions are contribution based but that contribution comes from taxes on your salary. Far from me to say that the system is perfect but you basically just need to work. Welfare is absolutely not contributory in Europe, it wouldn't make sense as those who need public welfare the most are those that can contribute less. Some countries like Austria have a healthcare system based on insurance, but employers are required to pay for it, students have it for free and unemployed as well.

terwey 6y ago
A lot of people confuse welfare with unemployment, I assume you mean that welfare isn't contribution based which is correct. In some countries, e.g. NL/DE, unemployment however is contribution based and you always pay for it (it's tacked on next to your normal taxed), which when needed is limited to 2 years based on 60% of your last net income. The idea is that you should still be able to afford your current way of living without too many compromises when you got laid off and haven't found a new job yet. In Germany for example welfare isn't great, it's around €400/mo though the state pays your rent directly.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  That's correct, I definitely mixed up things.
dmurray 6y ago
> Uh, no? Pensions are contribution based but that contribution comes from taxes on your salary... Welfare is absolutely not contributory in Europe This is just incorrect. In Ireland, there is a contributory state pension [0] of up to €500 a week, which you are entitled to if you spent enough years in the workforce making tax contributions. There's also a means-tested non-contributory pension [1] of €237 per week which you are entitled to if you don't have other savings or income, such as the contributory pension. In addition to these, private pensions exist: basically savings vehicles with certain restrictions and certain tax advantages. There's a similar two-tier system for unemployment assistance and certain healthcare entitlements. I understand many other European countries have similar arrangements, despite your assertion. [0] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_contributory.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_... [1] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_...
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  > In Ireland, there is a contributory state pension [0] of up to €500 a week, which you are entitled to if you spent enough years in the workforce making tax contributions. That is exactly what I said or are we not understanding each other? Your pension comes from the taxes on your salary. The existence of private pensions doesn't deny my point. I thought it would be irrelevant to mention them as they exist everywhere.