6 ms·

That’s not a good enough reason to deplatform facebook or parler, to that matter. The summer riots were freely advertised on all social media apps and WaPo. Ho

That’s not a good enough reason to deplatform facebook or parler, to that matter. The summer riots were freely advertised on all social media apps and WaPo. How is that not incitement of violence. What’s happening is an unprecedented attack on free speech in disguise of silencing “insurrection”.

abandonliberty 6y ago
By "insurrection" you mean an actual deliberate years-long effort to replace everyone in positions of power with those loyal to you, repeatedly calling into doubt the outcome of a fair election, manipulating people into attacking your opposition, while preventing appropriate security measures then leaving them helpless for 4 hours when under assault. Do you really need the quotes?
mhh__ 6y ago
Because WaPo weren't encouraging people to go and "riot". The police already have the power to deal with things like that, the vast majority of it was people protesting.
- andyxor 6y ago
  Calling all cops ‘racists’ indiscriminately and promoting an image of police as violent trigger-happy thugs who kill innocent black people is exactly what set the stage for violence. The aim of propaganda is to elicit an emotional reaction. WaPo and other media did a great job at inciting violent reaction, riots that lasted for months, fed primarily by the media and amplified by facebook and Twitter.
  - _fq4v 6y ago
    Yes! Thank you! And now the same politicians and reporters who said that are pretending to care for the police hurt in this riot and talking about how important law enforcement is. Forgive me for believing that law enforcement protecting family businesses is 1000x more important than law enforcement protecting politicians. EDIT: love the downvotes from people who believe torching family businesses, often immigrant ones, is cool! I'm telling you guys keep downvoting. You really look like the good guys.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - matchbok 6y ago
      What is wrong with you? Literally nobody is saying that. Holding police accountable is something we should all get behind. Whatever it is you think the "other side" supports sounds like something you picked up from Breitbart. Get real man.
      - _fq4v 6y ago
        I agree we should hold police accountable, which is why I voted for whatever the BLM protestors asked for in my city of Portland. When they protested, I supported them. When they harassed mayor wheeler, I supported them. When they started destroying local businesses, I didn't support them. I posted once on my next door to please let's all remain peaceful and stop the destruction of local small businesses, and was met with immediate condemnations of being racist. I got so many hate messages, despite being brown myself, that I eventually left next door, out of fear of doxxing. When BLM then went and tagged Pelosi and McConnell's homes, I cheered them on. I don't mind seeing people harass politicians. I just don't want them destroying private citizen's stuff, or killing them when they defend it. And I don't read Breitbart. I read Mother Jones and the New Yorker, and sometimes I read Breitbart when left wing people get outraged by their articles.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Statistically US police to seem to be trigger-happy thugs compared to just about anywhere else in the West. Asking for an end to qualified immunity isn't indicting all police officers. I find the ACAB movement unhelpful, to be clear.
    - modriano 6y ago
      Does your definition of the West include Latin America? Because law enforcement in Latin America kill far, far more people than law enforcement in the US. In the US (pop 330M), law enforcement kills about 1000 people per year (about 34 people per 10M pop per year). [0] In Honduras (pop 9.1M), law enforcement kills about 40 people per 10M pop per year [1] In the Dominican Republic (pop 10.7M), law enforcement kills about 130 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Brazil (pop 210M), law enforcement kills about 275 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Jamaica (pop 2.9M), law enforcement kills about 470 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Nicaragua (pop 6.2M), law enforcement kills about 530 people per 10M pop per year [1] In El Salvador (pop 6.4M), law enforcement kills about 950 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Venezuela (pop 29M), law enforcement kills about 1830 people per 10M pop per year [1] [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...
      - mhh__ 6y ago
        > Does your definition of the West include Latin America? No
        modriano 6y ago
        In that case, you're comparing the US, a country with extremely lax gun control laws and the resulting greatly increased threat to police safety, to countries with far more stringent gun control. I'm a homicide researcher in Chicago. There were over 4000 shootings and nearly 800 homicides in my city last year, and I've seen footage from a lot of them, including a lot of completely justified police shootings. Calling officers "trigger-happy thugs" ignores the reality of policing in a country where the frequency of encountering someone carrying a firearm is so high. That being said, somehow the Newark Police Department(in Newark, New Jersey's biggest city, and about 50 homicides per year) went all of 2020 without any of any officers firing a single shot (outside of training and firearm qualification contexts, I assume) [0]. [0] https://bronx.news12.com/newark-police-no-officer-fired-a-single-shot-in-2020-thanks-to-de-escalation-program https://bronx.news12.com/newark-police-no-officer-fired-a-si...
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    How did correctly indicating that us police are unusually violent set the stage for an attack, by various groups, including police officers, on elected officials and the capitol?
- _fq4v 6y ago
  > Because WaPo weren't encouraging people to go and "riot". Maybe WaPo wasn't (although I doubt it). Other media certainly were: https://twitter.com/slate/status/1268415955937513473?lang=en https://twitter.com/slate/status/1268415955937513473?lang=en Or will we keep justifying direct justifications of violence, while ignoring the calls to peace spoken and written by Trump. Honestly, I'm done at this point. I hope people like you keep saying what you're saying. You'll just convince more people, just like y'all have convinced me. EDIT: more justifications of violence: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178... Here's vice interviewing a man who just shot a trump supporter and killed him. They did this after he had done so, but before he was turned over to police. Harboring a criminal is illegal: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing-at-a-portland-protest-says-he-acted-in-self-defense https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing... EDIT: and just like I thought, from the downvotes, people actually agree with the direct calls to violence issued by these mainstream outlets that led to over 30 deaths this summr]er, and $2billion in damages, mainly to small businesses all over america. The lack of moral convictions on this forum is pathetic.
- _fq4v 6y ago
  Did Trump ever call on anyone to riot?
  - bufferout 6y ago
    "Stand back and stand by" as spoken to a pseudo white-nationalist group.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Did Trump ever call on anyone to riot? Did he explicitly say “Go riot!”, or “Go forth and <enumeration of elements of some crime>.” Probably not. Did he say things which had the intent and effect of inciting riot and insurrection? I think the answer is pretty clearly yes.
    - _fq4v 6y ago
      By that metric, I can point to many statements by many democrats, including the incoming Vice President, that 'directly incited' violence. This is a ridiculous standard. The double think is insane.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > By that metric, I can point to many statements by many democrats, including the incoming Vice President, that ‘directly incited’ violence. I don’t think you can, but, so what? > This is a ridiculous standard. It’s basically (stated informally, sure) the legal standard.
        offby37years 6y ago
        > I don’t think you can, but, so what? https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1347574973972545536 https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1347574973972545536 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1334184644707758080 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1334184644707758080
        6y ago

abandonliberty 6y ago

By "insurrection" you mean an actual deliberate years-long effort to replace everyone in positions of power with those loyal to you, repeatedly calling into doubt the outcome of a fair election, manipulating people into attacking your opposition, while preventing appropriate security measures then leaving them helpless for 4 hours when under assault. Do you really need the quotes?

mhh__ 6y ago

Because WaPo weren't encouraging people to go and "riot". The police already have the power to deal with things like that, the vast majority of it was people protesting.

andyxor 6y ago
Calling all cops ‘racists’ indiscriminately and promoting an image of police as violent trigger-happy thugs who kill innocent black people is exactly what set the stage for violence. The aim of propaganda is to elicit an emotional reaction. WaPo and other media did a great job at inciting violent reaction, riots that lasted for months, fed primarily by the media and amplified by facebook and Twitter.
- _fq4v 6y ago
  Yes! Thank you! And now the same politicians and reporters who said that are pretending to care for the police hurt in this riot and talking about how important law enforcement is. Forgive me for believing that law enforcement protecting family businesses is 1000x more important than law enforcement protecting politicians. EDIT: love the downvotes from people who believe torching family businesses, often immigrant ones, is cool! I'm telling you guys keep downvoting. You really look like the good guys.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - matchbok 6y ago
    What is wrong with you? Literally nobody is saying that. Holding police accountable is something we should all get behind. Whatever it is you think the "other side" supports sounds like something you picked up from Breitbart. Get real man.
    - _fq4v 6y ago
      I agree we should hold police accountable, which is why I voted for whatever the BLM protestors asked for in my city of Portland. When they protested, I supported them. When they harassed mayor wheeler, I supported them. When they started destroying local businesses, I didn't support them. I posted once on my next door to please let's all remain peaceful and stop the destruction of local small businesses, and was met with immediate condemnations of being racist. I got so many hate messages, despite being brown myself, that I eventually left next door, out of fear of doxxing. When BLM then went and tagged Pelosi and McConnell's homes, I cheered them on. I don't mind seeing people harass politicians. I just don't want them destroying private citizen's stuff, or killing them when they defend it. And I don't read Breitbart. I read Mother Jones and the New Yorker, and sometimes I read Breitbart when left wing people get outraged by their articles.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Statistically US police to seem to be trigger-happy thugs compared to just about anywhere else in the West. Asking for an end to qualified immunity isn't indicting all police officers. I find the ACAB movement unhelpful, to be clear.
  - modriano 6y ago
    Does your definition of the West include Latin America? Because law enforcement in Latin America kill far, far more people than law enforcement in the US. In the US (pop 330M), law enforcement kills about 1000 people per year (about 34 people per 10M pop per year). [0] In Honduras (pop 9.1M), law enforcement kills about 40 people per 10M pop per year [1] In the Dominican Republic (pop 10.7M), law enforcement kills about 130 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Brazil (pop 210M), law enforcement kills about 275 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Jamaica (pop 2.9M), law enforcement kills about 470 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Nicaragua (pop 6.2M), law enforcement kills about 530 people per 10M pop per year [1] In El Salvador (pop 6.4M), law enforcement kills about 950 people per 10M pop per year [1] In Venezuela (pop 29M), law enforcement kills about 1830 people per 10M pop per year [1] [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      > Does your definition of the West include Latin America? No
      - modriano 6y ago
        In that case, you're comparing the US, a country with extremely lax gun control laws and the resulting greatly increased threat to police safety, to countries with far more stringent gun control. I'm a homicide researcher in Chicago. There were over 4000 shootings and nearly 800 homicides in my city last year, and I've seen footage from a lot of them, including a lot of completely justified police shootings. Calling officers "trigger-happy thugs" ignores the reality of policing in a country where the frequency of encountering someone carrying a firearm is so high. That being said, somehow the Newark Police Department(in Newark, New Jersey's biggest city, and about 50 homicides per year) went all of 2020 without any of any officers firing a single shot (outside of training and firearm qualification contexts, I assume) [0]. [0] https://bronx.news12.com/newark-police-no-officer-fired-a-single-shot-in-2020-thanks-to-de-escalation-program https://bronx.news12.com/newark-police-no-officer-fired-a-si...
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  How did correctly indicating that us police are unusually violent set the stage for an attack, by various groups, including police officers, on elected officials and the capitol?
_fq4v 6y ago
> Because WaPo weren't encouraging people to go and "riot". Maybe WaPo wasn't (although I doubt it). Other media certainly were: https://twitter.com/slate/status/1268415955937513473?lang=en https://twitter.com/slate/status/1268415955937513473?lang=en Or will we keep justifying direct justifications of violence, while ignoring the calls to peace spoken and written by Trump. Honestly, I'm done at this point. I hope people like you keep saying what you're saying. You'll just convince more people, just like y'all have convinced me. EDIT: more justifications of violence: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178... Here's vice interviewing a man who just shot a trump supporter and killed him. They did this after he had done so, but before he was turned over to police. Harboring a criminal is illegal: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing-at-a-portland-protest-says-he-acted-in-self-defense https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing... EDIT: and just like I thought, from the downvotes, people actually agree with the direct calls to violence issued by these mainstream outlets that led to over 30 deaths this summr]er, and $2billion in damages, mainly to small businesses all over america. The lack of moral convictions on this forum is pathetic.
_fq4v 6y ago
Did Trump ever call on anyone to riot?
- bufferout 6y ago
  "Stand back and stand by" as spoken to a pseudo white-nationalist group.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Did Trump ever call on anyone to riot? Did he explicitly say “Go riot!”, or “Go forth and <enumeration of elements of some crime>.” Probably not. Did he say things which had the intent and effect of inciting riot and insurrection? I think the answer is pretty clearly yes.
  - _fq4v 6y ago
    By that metric, I can point to many statements by many democrats, including the incoming Vice President, that 'directly incited' violence. This is a ridiculous standard. The double think is insane.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > By that metric, I can point to many statements by many democrats, including the incoming Vice President, that ‘directly incited’ violence. I don’t think you can, but, so what? > This is a ridiculous standard. It’s basically (stated informally, sure) the legal standard.
      - offby37years 6y ago
        > I don’t think you can, but, so what? https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1347574973972545536 https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1347574973972545536 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1334184644707758080 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1334184644707758080
        6y ago