6 ms·

I believe that knowledge management tied to a development platform is a bad idea. Development isn't the only thing I do in computers and knowledge management sh

I believe that knowledge management tied to a development platform is a bad idea. Development isn't the only thing I do in computers and knowledge management should be able to store stuff from all other activities (including cooking recipes or reading notes to read on a mobile phone). I don't love tiddlywiki but haven't found a better alternative yet. I'd love something easy to configure but powerful like the wiki and bug tracker on the Fossil SCM, but not tied to a specific platform. Also, Markdown/text/html because no vendor should own my thoughts. Obsidian[3] and Notion are in my "to check" list. [1] https://tiddlywiki.com/ https://tiddlywiki.com/ [2] https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki [3] https://obsidian.md/ https://obsidian.md/

Groxx 6y ago
I recently switched to Obsidian for my desktop pile-of-notes - so far it's pleasantly compliant with everything else I've done so far, and hasn't done anything to screw up my notes or make it hard to understand in other systems (e.g. Notable has a... "unique" folder system). Definitely recommend giving it a shot.
BlahGod420 6y ago
I (respectfully) disagree completely. All source code is knowledge. All the content that goes in to a product when you're shipping it is knowledge. Managing a project is knowledge management. Managing multiple projects is knowledge management. Managing a company is knowledge management. I've never seen a tool (other than, arguably, an Operating System) that does all of this comfortably.
foota 6y ago
I think they're using vscode here as an application platform of sorts.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  Like Emacs before it. Emacs has Org-mode. Why shouldn't VS Code have a killer app of its own?
Blahah 6y ago
Check out Joplin, Dendron, Notable, BoostNote, Roam Research. For wiki style check out Agora: https://anagora.org/node/agora https://anagora.org/node/agora Honourable mention for Notational Velocity which pairs well as a lightweight quick interface with any other md filesystem based note software.
- bobajeff 6y ago
  Never heard of Dendron before. Just looked at their site and it's basically the same exact tool as Foam here. I wonder if they're related?
  - Blahah 6y ago
    It's similar and they are interoperable, but Dendron runs inside VS Code.
    - josht 6y ago
      The implications of this cannot be overstated. Utilizing VS Code as a platform -- at least for a dev -- makes dendron feel intuitive and flexible enough to customize to my hearts content.
    - _1tan 6y ago
      Foam runs inside VSCode as well.
  - crucialfelix 6y ago
    Dendron is more opinionated. It seems cool, but I didn't want to get too involved in a system. Foam is just markdown with some vscode extensions. Foam is closer to obsidian.
- murrayb 6y ago
  +1 for Joplin, I moved over from Evernote because I was worried about Evernotes future and I have been pretty happy with Joplin. It's not quite as featured as Evernote but it is more stable and reliable.
breck 6y ago
I agree and think strong emphasis should be on how a knowledge base saves its files, which should be very interoperable. I build my own little DSLs and have my own experimental knowledge base studio going, where I can edit things using my editors (Sublime, VSCode and Vim), view/query/visualize in my web browser, and also view/edit in a spreadsheet web interface using Handsontable. The secret trick is all the DSLs use a thing I work on called Tree Notation (some use an even dumber version simply called Grid Notation). It's a plain text notation that just defines lists of words (aka cells) on a line (aka a node or row) and if you indent a line it becomes a child of the parent line (like python) providing support for tree structures and scope. That's the basics, and then on top of that you can design all sorts of DSLs with types and very different parsing strategies than traditional languages. For example, here's a Tree Language called Dumdown that compiles to markdown or html: https://jtree.treenotation.org/designer/#standard%20dumbdown https://jtree.treenotation.org/designer/#standard%20dumbdown But that's still a relatively traditional language. I have some languages which generally you want to use a spreadsheet interface to write programs in, where you can just plop a tree anywhere on the sheet, and then start writing trees. Those ones are kind of like having a canvas for your project instead of a folder with files. Makes for a good base for building DSLs for simulations. Sorry, I digress, but my purpose in bringing this up is that if anyone is working on personal knowledge base software like the OP, Tree Notation is a pretty useful thing, if you can figure it out. I've got it figured out but not very good at explaining it.
- ar-nelson 6y ago
  Tree Notation looks very interesting. It also looks like just another version of S-expressions (but with indentation instead of parens). That's not a bad thing, though! S-expressions aren't used nearly as much as they should be, and indentation syntax can be much clearer than parens. What's most interesting is the language design DSL that makes it easy to put together a new tree language. I wonder if that can be implemented in Lisp, possibly with an indentation-sensitive syntax like Wisp[1] so that it retains most of Tree Notation's features. [1]: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-119/srfi-119.html https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-119/srfi-119.html
  - 6y ago
andreilys 6y ago
Have you tried vimwiki? Combining that with Skim and obsidian has worked for me over the last few months
zensavona 6y ago
It probably is a bad idea in a way, but in my own personal experience I have found the biggest hurdle to a knowledge management system being actually used and up to date is _actually using it_, and having it just there in front of me in my IDE would probably go a long way to help with that.
zie 6y ago
How is fossil-scm tied to a particular platform? The data format is literally a SQLITE DB, which is the most used DB on the planet. Binaries are available for all the major OS's and many "alternative" ones. I use Fossil-SCM for my personal notes. Works great. I even run many websites with Fossil-SCM as the wiki is fabulous for a super easy to deploy and super easy to edit website, even if there is zero code in the VCS portion. I also use fossil on USB sticks for my legal information on my death. I include fossil binaries for every platform, so whenever I'm dead my next of kin can just plug in the USB stick I update every year and hand to them and double click and boom, fossil-scm opens with a VCS of all my files and documents, financials, etc, a wiki with next steps, etc. Easy peasy, and they get everything they need to take care of all the stuff to handle my estate, in a nice easy to use manner, with basically no work on my part.
- Groxx 6y ago
  Having only tried Fossil for this briefly: do you have any recommendations? Viewing is pretty simple, and I agree about the portability / SQLite is a great fallback, but modifying is complex enough to keep me from adopting it. E.g. I can't find a way to add files/images/make commits in the UI at all. I can make wiki pages or tickets in there (honestly, the wiki probably covers 99% of what I want, aside from it not being very streamlined to say the least), but I haven't found a way to add files except via `fossil add` on the CLI. Have I just missed it? Otherwise, the main things keeping me from being more interested is that it's a large blob -> harder to sync, and there don't seem to be any mobile-friendly implementations (e.g. no app that just runs it). A folder of markdown files and images/etc to embed via `![](filename)` is dramatically easier and more flexible on both of those fronts... but I do miss having a history.
  - ontouchstart 6y ago
    I run fossil-scm in docker-compose on local file system spin a server only for viewing and do the editing and CLI in VS Code. It won’t be difficult to build a mobile friendly web UI on fossil server if you want a complete mobile experience.
  - zie 6y ago
se6 6y ago
Fully agree. What about Gollum Wiki[1] ? I have been using it happily for years. It used to be Github wikis, but they diverged apparently. It uses git as backend. You're in full control of your data. Love it. [1]https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki
tdrgabi 6y ago
I used tiddlywiki for a while but found editing clunky. Having to click around a webpage and edit in a textbox was not ideal. I've started using obsidian, and I'm happy. It saved markdown files locally, so you don't have to learn TW's own syntax. Since it's local, it's also faster than notion. And you can put the files in a dropbox folder to sync with all the machines.
tommica 6y ago
https://zim-wiki.org/ https://zim-wiki.org/ is what i use, and it is a fantastic cross platform solution
madsbuch 6y ago
One of the absolute most critical features of my own knowledge base is that it is entirely in my control. Hence it would not be possible to use an online platform. - As Derek Sivers say: Apps come and go, we want to use our knowledge base til we die - I need to know nobody is looking over my shoulders. A bit like social cooling. I will not be honest if I might be sharing. You mention Obsidian which is definitely a good candidate. But hey, I just use a folder of markdown files. I can use the editor best suited for the task I am doing. So I both use Obsidian, VS Code, normal text editor and whatever floats my boat.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
calebkaiser 6y ago
I felt/feel the same way, which kept me from using Foam for a very long time. That being said, I've now used nearly everything (TiddlyWiki, Obsidian, even Emacs with Org-Roam) and have recently transitioned to Foam. Foam, for me, is the best option I've used. A couple of reasons: - Setup and maintenance are effectively nil, and customizing it is extremely easy. This was the big drawback of org-roam for me. It seems extremely powerful, but even after initial setup, it was just a headache to keep it maintained (and this is not me simply hating products that require config. I'm not particulary sensitive to upkeep--I'm typing this on a Surface Pro 3 running Linux, I'm used to needing to fix things.) - Graph view/general UI. A big feature for me is the graph view, similar to Roam, and the associated UI (autogenerated backlinks, etc.). Foam is fantastic here. The general note taking experience is much better than TiddlyWiki (which I think is a fantastic tool as well) and I have to think less about constructing a knowledge graph, it just happens. Also, due to the VS Code ecosystem, there are a ton of nice extensions available for diagramming, embedding images, writing in LaTeX, etc. that make note taking nice without introducing overhead. - Privacy/open source. This is perhaps counter-intuitive, but Foam has been one of the better options on this front. It's all markdown/text/html, as you say, but it's also fully open source, unlike something like Obsidian (which has a fantastic out-of-the-box writing experience, btw). I run Foam on VSCodium, a community-driven project that rebuilds VS Code into freely-licensed binaries with all of MS's telemetry turned off. The Foam maintainers have been open and encouraging about making sure Foam works in VSCodium ecosystem: https://github.com/foambubble/foam/issues/26 https://github.com/foambubble/foam/issues/26 My whole setup now is more or less run out of Foam. I push up notes to a Git repo, which triggers a deploy of a little web app I have that renders a site built out of my notes, allowing me to do things like view my todo's or access information from my phone/other devices. It's been really easy to set up and maintain, and the Foam community has consistently impressed me.

Groxx 6y ago

I recently switched to Obsidian for my desktop pile-of-notes - so far it's pleasantly compliant with everything else I've done so far, and hasn't done anything to screw up my notes or make it hard to understand in other systems (e.g. Notable has a... "unique" folder system). Definitely recommend giving it a shot.

BlahGod420 6y ago

I (respectfully) disagree completely. All source code is knowledge. All the content that goes in to a product when you're shipping it is knowledge. Managing a project is knowledge management. Managing multiple projects is knowledge management. Managing a company is knowledge management. I've never seen a tool (other than, arguably, an Operating System) that does all of this comfortably.

foota 6y ago

I think they're using vscode here as an application platform of sorts.

smnrchrds 6y ago
Like Emacs before it. Emacs has Org-mode. Why shouldn't VS Code have a killer app of its own?

Blahah 6y ago

Check out Joplin, Dendron, Notable, BoostNote, Roam Research. For wiki style check out Agora: https://anagora.org/node/agora https://anagora.org/node/agora Honourable mention for Notational Velocity which pairs well as a lightweight quick interface with any other md filesystem based note software.

bobajeff 6y ago
Never heard of Dendron before. Just looked at their site and it's basically the same exact tool as Foam here. I wonder if they're related?
- Blahah 6y ago
  It's similar and they are interoperable, but Dendron runs inside VS Code.
  - josht 6y ago
    The implications of this cannot be overstated. Utilizing VS Code as a platform -- at least for a dev -- makes dendron feel intuitive and flexible enough to customize to my hearts content.
  - _1tan 6y ago
    Foam runs inside VSCode as well.
- crucialfelix 6y ago
  Dendron is more opinionated. It seems cool, but I didn't want to get too involved in a system. Foam is just markdown with some vscode extensions. Foam is closer to obsidian.
murrayb 6y ago
+1 for Joplin, I moved over from Evernote because I was worried about Evernotes future and I have been pretty happy with Joplin. It's not quite as featured as Evernote but it is more stable and reliable.

breck 6y ago

I agree and think strong emphasis should be on how a knowledge base saves its files, which should be very interoperable. I build my own little DSLs and have my own experimental knowledge base studio going, where I can edit things using my editors (Sublime, VSCode and Vim), view/query/visualize in my web browser, and also view/edit in a spreadsheet web interface using Handsontable. The secret trick is all the DSLs use a thing I work on called Tree Notation (some use an even dumber version simply called Grid Notation). It's a plain text notation that just defines lists of words (aka cells) on a line (aka a node or row) and if you indent a line it becomes a child of the parent line (like python) providing support for tree structures and scope. That's the basics, and then on top of that you can design all sorts of DSLs with types and very different parsing strategies than traditional languages. For example, here's a Tree Language called Dumdown that compiles to markdown or html: https://jtree.treenotation.org/designer/#standard%20dumbdown https://jtree.treenotation.org/designer/#standard%20dumbdown But that's still a relatively traditional language. I have some languages which generally you want to use a spreadsheet interface to write programs in, where you can just plop a tree anywhere on the sheet, and then start writing trees. Those ones are kind of like having a canvas for your project instead of a folder with files. Makes for a good base for building DSLs for simulations. Sorry, I digress, but my purpose in bringing this up is that if anyone is working on personal knowledge base software like the OP, Tree Notation is a pretty useful thing, if you can figure it out. I've got it figured out but not very good at explaining it.

ar-nelson 6y ago
Tree Notation looks very interesting. It also looks like just another version of S-expressions (but with indentation instead of parens). That's not a bad thing, though! S-expressions aren't used nearly as much as they should be, and indentation syntax can be much clearer than parens. What's most interesting is the language design DSL that makes it easy to put together a new tree language. I wonder if that can be implemented in Lisp, possibly with an indentation-sensitive syntax like Wisp[1] so that it retains most of Tree Notation's features. [1]: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-119/srfi-119.html https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-119/srfi-119.html
- 6y ago

andreilys 6y ago

Have you tried vimwiki? Combining that with Skim and obsidian has worked for me over the last few months

zensavona 6y ago

It probably is a bad idea in a way, but in my own personal experience I have found the biggest hurdle to a knowledge management system being actually used and up to date is _actually using it_, and having it just there in front of me in my IDE would probably go a long way to help with that.

zie 6y ago

How is fossil-scm tied to a particular platform? The data format is literally a SQLITE DB, which is the most used DB on the planet. Binaries are available for all the major OS's and many "alternative" ones. I use Fossil-SCM for my personal notes. Works great. I even run many websites with Fossil-SCM as the wiki is fabulous for a super easy to deploy and super easy to edit website, even if there is zero code in the VCS portion. I also use fossil on USB sticks for my legal information on my death. I include fossil binaries for every platform, so whenever I'm dead my next of kin can just plug in the USB stick I update every year and hand to them and double click and boom, fossil-scm opens with a VCS of all my files and documents, financials, etc, a wiki with next steps, etc. Easy peasy, and they get everything they need to take care of all the stuff to handle my estate, in a nice easy to use manner, with basically no work on my part.

Groxx 6y ago
Having only tried Fossil for this briefly: do you have any recommendations? Viewing is pretty simple, and I agree about the portability / SQLite is a great fallback, but modifying is complex enough to keep me from adopting it. E.g. I can't find a way to add files/images/make commits in the UI at all. I can make wiki pages or tickets in there (honestly, the wiki probably covers 99% of what I want, aside from it not being very streamlined to say the least), but I haven't found a way to add files except via `fossil add` on the CLI. Have I just missed it? Otherwise, the main things keeping me from being more interested is that it's a large blob -> harder to sync, and there don't seem to be any mobile-friendly implementations (e.g. no app that just runs it). A folder of markdown files and images/etc to embed via `![](filename)` is dramatically easier and more flexible on both of those fronts... but I do miss having a history.
- ontouchstart 6y ago
  I run fossil-scm in docker-compose on local file system spin a server only for viewing and do the editing and CLI in VS Code. It won’t be difficult to build a mobile friendly web UI on fossil server if you want a complete mobile experience.
- zie 6y ago

se6 6y ago

Fully agree. What about Gollum Wiki[1] ? I have been using it happily for years. It used to be Github wikis, but they diverged apparently. It uses git as backend. You're in full control of your data. Love it. [1]https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki

tdrgabi 6y ago

I used tiddlywiki for a while but found editing clunky. Having to click around a webpage and edit in a textbox was not ideal. I've started using obsidian, and I'm happy. It saved markdown files locally, so you don't have to learn TW's own syntax. Since it's local, it's also faster than notion. And you can put the files in a dropbox folder to sync with all the machines.

tommica 6y ago

https://zim-wiki.org/ https://zim-wiki.org/ is what i use, and it is a fantastic cross platform solution

madsbuch 6y ago

One of the absolute most critical features of my own knowledge base is that it is entirely in my control. Hence it would not be possible to use an online platform. - As Derek Sivers say: Apps come and go, we want to use our knowledge base til we die - I need to know nobody is looking over my shoulders. A bit like social cooling. I will not be honest if I might be sharing. You mention Obsidian which is definitely a good candidate. But hey, I just use a folder of markdown files. I can use the editor best suited for the task I am doing. So I both use Obsidian, VS Code, normal text editor and whatever floats my boat.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

calebkaiser 6y ago

I felt/feel the same way, which kept me from using Foam for a very long time. That being said, I've now used nearly everything (TiddlyWiki, Obsidian, even Emacs with Org-Roam) and have recently transitioned to Foam. Foam, for me, is the best option I've used. A couple of reasons: - Setup and maintenance are effectively nil, and customizing it is extremely easy. This was the big drawback of org-roam for me. It seems extremely powerful, but even after initial setup, it was just a headache to keep it maintained (and this is not me simply hating products that require config. I'm not particulary sensitive to upkeep--I'm typing this on a Surface Pro 3 running Linux, I'm used to needing to fix things.) - Graph view/general UI. A big feature for me is the graph view, similar to Roam, and the associated UI (autogenerated backlinks, etc.). Foam is fantastic here. The general note taking experience is much better than TiddlyWiki (which I think is a fantastic tool as well) and I have to think less about constructing a knowledge graph, it just happens. Also, due to the VS Code ecosystem, there are a ton of nice extensions available for diagramming, embedding images, writing in LaTeX, etc. that make note taking nice without introducing overhead. - Privacy/open source. This is perhaps counter-intuitive, but Foam has been one of the better options on this front. It's all markdown/text/html, as you say, but it's also fully open source, unlike something like Obsidian (which has a fantastic out-of-the-box writing experience, btw). I run Foam on VSCodium, a community-driven project that rebuilds VS Code into freely-licensed binaries with all of MS's telemetry turned off. The Foam maintainers have been open and encouraging about making sure Foam works in VSCodium ecosystem: https://github.com/foambubble/foam/issues/26 https://github.com/foambubble/foam/issues/26 My whole setup now is more or less run out of Foam. I push up notes to a Git repo, which triggers a deploy of a little web app I have that renders a site built out of my notes, allowing me to do things like view my todo's or access information from my phone/other devices. It's been really easy to set up and maintain, and the Foam community has consistently impressed me.