9 ms·

The First Amendment doesn't guarantee you the rights you think it does

11 points by sahin 6y ago

eFraud4Lif3 6y ago
Sahin: You moved from Turkey to SF - what last year? I don't think you know anything about the First Amendment. Please fuck right off.
chaganated 6y ago
CNN, explaining grade school civics to adults. This is why the rednecks hate these people--and rightfully so!
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  As a result of what happened last week, the Joint Chiefs of Staff felt they had to remind the troops of their oath to the Constitution this week. Sometimes people need a refresher.
  - chaganated 6y ago
    More bad-faith argument than refresher on CNN's part. The right (or lack thereof) to someone else's platform is well understood. What they are intentionally ignoring here are the procedures and protections typically extended to users of quasi-monopolistic platforms (esp. utilities). So, instead of participating in an honest debate, they paint the other as being simply too dumb to grasp the 1st amendment. Slimy.
core-questions 6y ago
I love how American "liberals" and leftists have found themselves arguing in favour of corporate control over people's lives to this extent. Truly amazing.
- chaganated 6y ago
  start your own social media network just find another cloud provider just use a different payment network stop whining, cloudflare has only blocked you from half the internet just generate your own electricity ...
  - matthewmcg 6y ago
    One of these is not like the others....electric utilities are regulated monopolies that have an obligation to serve their customers.
    - chaganated 6y ago
      hmmmm... https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-05/residents-holding-large-parties-may-have-their-water-and-power-shut-off-garcetti-says https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-05/resident...
LatteLazy 6y ago
The sad thing about this (and other) is that people also make the inverse mistake: they think that the only interpretation of freedom of speech is what was written in the constitution and what the scotus has interpreted it as. I'm not a trumper. Im mostly glad someone has taken a stand on these issues (tech companies would not be in my top 1000 choices, but here we are) That said, it is concerning that tech companies can decide who speaks. They've been very very self controlled with that power. Good for them. Will they always be? Can't you claim that Facebook today is the public square of yesterday? Once a platform reaches a certain size, I don't think it should censor beyond the legal minimum (twitter is a good example of this).
floxy 6y ago
A lot of non-American's get the cause and effect reversed. Free speech is in the Constitution because the people of America cherish the idea. People don't cherish free speech because of the 1st Amendment or the Constitution. Just because the 1st Amendment is limited in its powers does not mean American's like (or should like) speech limitations.
- eesmith 6y ago
  ??? Americans have a long history of not cherishing free speech. As examples that easily come to mind: The Comstock Laws, Abrams v. United States, Debs' sedition conviction, the Red Scare suppression of anything interpreted as sympathy for communism, and anti-flag burning laws.
  - floxy 6y ago
    Based on that, would you also say that American's don't have a love affair with firearms?
    - eesmith 6y ago
      Are you changing the topic because you can't defend your claim that Americans cherish the idea of free speech? Why do and/or have so many people oppose free speech like advocating for socialism, burning a US flag in protest, or kneeling for the anthem?
      - floxy 6y ago
        I was bringing that point, because although there are some gun laws, just like there have been some noxious speech laws, I'd be hard pressed to say that American's don't love guns. I guess I don't know how to reconcile things like: "73% say freedom of speech worth dying for": https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/august_2017/73_say_freedom_of_speech_worth_dying_for https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/ge... ...and... "Majority of Americans think the first amendment goes too far" https://campaignforfreespeech.org/free-speech-under-dire-threat-polling-finds/ https://campaignforfreespeech.org/free-speech-under-dire-thr... ...could be that I'm getting old, and that we've failed to pass along the free speech tradition to younger generations. "For instance, 40% of U.S. Millennials think the government should be able to prevent people from making statements that are offensive to minority groups, compared with 27% of those in Generation X, 24% of Baby Boomers, and just 12% of Silent Generation Americans." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/12/americans-more-tolerant-of-offensive-speech-than-others-in-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/12/americans-m...

11 points by sahin 6y ago

Sahin: You moved from Turkey to SF - what last year? I don't think you know anything about the First Amendment. Please fuck right off.

chaganated 6y ago

CNN, explaining grade school civics to adults. This is why the rednecks hate these people--and rightfully so!

quickthrowman 6y ago
As a result of what happened last week, the Joint Chiefs of Staff felt they had to remind the troops of their oath to the Constitution this week. Sometimes people need a refresher.
- chaganated 6y ago
  More bad-faith argument than refresher on CNN's part. The right (or lack thereof) to someone else's platform is well understood. What they are intentionally ignoring here are the procedures and protections typically extended to users of quasi-monopolistic platforms (esp. utilities). So, instead of participating in an honest debate, they paint the other as being simply too dumb to grasp the 1st amendment. Slimy.

core-questions 6y ago

I love how American "liberals" and leftists have found themselves arguing in favour of corporate control over people's lives to this extent. Truly amazing.

chaganated 6y ago
start your own social media network just find another cloud provider just use a different payment network stop whining, cloudflare has only blocked you from half the internet just generate your own electricity ...
- matthewmcg 6y ago
  One of these is not like the others....electric utilities are regulated monopolies that have an obligation to serve their customers.
  - chaganated 6y ago
    hmmmm... https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-05/residents-holding-large-parties-may-have-their-water-and-power-shut-off-garcetti-says https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-05/resident...

LatteLazy 6y ago

The sad thing about this (and other) is that people also make the inverse mistake: they think that the only interpretation of freedom of speech is what was written in the constitution and what the scotus has interpreted it as. I'm not a trumper. Im mostly glad someone has taken a stand on these issues (tech companies would not be in my top 1000 choices, but here we are) That said, it is concerning that tech companies can decide who speaks. They've been very very self controlled with that power. Good for them. Will they always be? Can't you claim that Facebook today is the public square of yesterday? Once a platform reaches a certain size, I don't think it should censor beyond the legal minimum (twitter is a good example of this).

floxy 6y ago

A lot of non-American's get the cause and effect reversed. Free speech is in the Constitution because the people of America cherish the idea. People don't cherish free speech because of the 1st Amendment or the Constitution. Just because the 1st Amendment is limited in its powers does not mean American's like (or should like) speech limitations.

eesmith 6y ago
??? Americans have a long history of not cherishing free speech. As examples that easily come to mind: The Comstock Laws, Abrams v. United States, Debs' sedition conviction, the Red Scare suppression of anything interpreted as sympathy for communism, and anti-flag burning laws.
- floxy 6y ago
  Based on that, would you also say that American's don't have a love affair with firearms?
  - eesmith 6y ago
    Are you changing the topic because you can't defend your claim that Americans cherish the idea of free speech? Why do and/or have so many people oppose free speech like advocating for socialism, burning a US flag in protest, or kneeling for the anthem?
    - floxy 6y ago
      I was bringing that point, because although there are some gun laws, just like there have been some noxious speech laws, I'd be hard pressed to say that American's don't love guns. I guess I don't know how to reconcile things like: "73% say freedom of speech worth dying for": https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/august_2017/73_say_freedom_of_speech_worth_dying_for https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/ge... ...and... "Majority of Americans think the first amendment goes too far" https://campaignforfreespeech.org/free-speech-under-dire-threat-polling-finds/ https://campaignforfreespeech.org/free-speech-under-dire-thr... ...could be that I'm getting old, and that we've failed to pass along the free speech tradition to younger generations. "For instance, 40% of U.S. Millennials think the government should be able to prevent people from making statements that are offensive to minority groups, compared with 27% of those in Generation X, 24% of Baby Boomers, and just 12% of Silent Generation Americans." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/12/americans-more-tolerant-of-offensive-speech-than-others-in-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/12/americans-m...