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I've also changed my mind about bitcoin. As an earlier believer an enthusiast, I cannot see bitcoin as anything more than a race to spend energy for nothing. It

I've also changed my mind about bitcoin. As an earlier believer an enthusiast, I cannot see bitcoin as anything more than a race to spend energy for nothing. It doesnxt scale it's not sustainable, it will fail. I still believe in cryptocoins though just not bitxoin..

kneel 6y ago
Energy consumed is security in the network. Like a giant force field.
- toiletfuneral 6y ago
  hahahahahahahahahahahna holy shit
- alexarnesen 6y ago
  +10 Insightful
- robjan 6y ago
  That's great but nation states and large institutions have access to far more energy than the common man. It's hardly democratising money.
  - kneel 6y ago
    Attacking bitcoin would involve the energy supply of an entire nation and a suspiciously large purchase of mining rigs.
    - giantrobot 6y ago
      Ok. https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3005334/china-home-worlds-biggest-cryptocurrency-mining-farms-now-wants-ban https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3005334/china-home-...
      - kneel 6y ago
        If a country bans bitcoin then the mining difficulty will adjust and the hashing continues elsewhere. Much like other p2p networks, Bitcoin is a borderless hydra that simply cannot be stopped.
        robjan 6y ago
        Rather than take it offline, another possibility is to size the hashing power and use it to undermine the currency.
- Zamicol 6y ago
  Energy consumption is a large red target making it easy for nation states to attack. I cannot easily target your computer running proof of stake in your closet. I can easy to cut the electrical wires into your proof of work data center.
j_walter 6y ago
What about a crypto that is working to change from PoW to PoS like Ethereum is attempting to do. I agree Bitcoin is wasting country like amounts of energy right now...
onepointsixC 6y ago
Same boat here. I remember all the enthusiasm users had when they were able to spend bitcoins to buy something. The excitement when a new vendor added it as a payment method. Now it seems that the space is occupied by those who would sneer at those who spent thousands of bitcoins to buy a pizza. It seems the only thing that there is to do with bitcoin is to hodl and hope you become a millionaire.
cjflog 6y ago
Sometimes spending more energy is a net win even though it's more energy expensive (cars vs horses).
- giantrobot 6y ago
  Bitcoin is not one of those times.
hehehaha 6y ago
This so much. I absolutely believe in digital currency and blockchain (albeit not current implementations). However, they need to tie it to something tangible and it needs to be completely detached from USD.
yrral 6y ago
This is a rehash of a previous post of mine regarding electricity consumption: Back in the days where all our electricity came from fossil fuels, I completely agree that marginal electricity usage was bad for the environment. However I think that thought has persisted with us even though it is no longer true 100% of the time. With renewables sometimes the marginal cost of electricity to our environment is near 0 or even negative (eg, during periods of higher winds and lower demand.) I predict that in the future as bitcoin mining becomes more and more of an efficiency game that you will see bitcoin mining be kind of a load balancer the grid, effectively turning off during peak demand (or low supply) times and contributing to the base load during regular times. For example, it may even help the economics of building new wind plants. Eg, currently it may not be profitable to build a new wind plant because base load is too low that the excess power generated would need to be sold off at 0 or even negative prices. However if bitcoin mining could be turned on during these times and off during periods of high demand, there will need to be fewer peaker plants in operation and it would positively affect the economics of opening a new wind plant. Bitcoin mining only cares about the cost of electricity at a given time, it is not like most other electricity demands that are very time based. With the large variance of electricity generation by renewables, I think bitcoin can in the future help smooth demand according to the real supply/demand curve. It's kind of like a different implementation of the Tesla utility grid batteries. Instead of deploying power, you force the grid to build more renewable capacity (that the miners are paying for) that you use except in peak periods, where you turn off and effectively provide the grid with more power.

kneel 6y ago

Energy consumed is security in the network. Like a giant force field.

toiletfuneral 6y ago
hahahahahahahahahahahna holy shit
alexarnesen 6y ago
+10 Insightful
robjan 6y ago
That's great but nation states and large institutions have access to far more energy than the common man. It's hardly democratising money.
- kneel 6y ago
  Attacking bitcoin would involve the energy supply of an entire nation and a suspiciously large purchase of mining rigs.
  - giantrobot 6y ago
    Ok. https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3005334/china-home-worlds-biggest-cryptocurrency-mining-farms-now-wants-ban https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3005334/china-home-...
    - kneel 6y ago
      If a country bans bitcoin then the mining difficulty will adjust and the hashing continues elsewhere. Much like other p2p networks, Bitcoin is a borderless hydra that simply cannot be stopped.
      - robjan 6y ago
        Rather than take it offline, another possibility is to size the hashing power and use it to undermine the currency.
Zamicol 6y ago
Energy consumption is a large red target making it easy for nation states to attack. I cannot easily target your computer running proof of stake in your closet. I can easy to cut the electrical wires into your proof of work data center.

j_walter 6y ago

What about a crypto that is working to change from PoW to PoS like Ethereum is attempting to do. I agree Bitcoin is wasting country like amounts of energy right now...

onepointsixC 6y ago

Same boat here. I remember all the enthusiasm users had when they were able to spend bitcoins to buy something. The excitement when a new vendor added it as a payment method. Now it seems that the space is occupied by those who would sneer at those who spent thousands of bitcoins to buy a pizza. It seems the only thing that there is to do with bitcoin is to hodl and hope you become a millionaire.

cjflog 6y ago

Sometimes spending more energy is a net win even though it's more energy expensive (cars vs horses).

giantrobot 6y ago
Bitcoin is not one of those times.

hehehaha 6y ago

This so much. I absolutely believe in digital currency and blockchain (albeit not current implementations). However, they need to tie it to something tangible and it needs to be completely detached from USD.

yrral 6y ago

This is a rehash of a previous post of mine regarding electricity consumption: Back in the days where all our electricity came from fossil fuels, I completely agree that marginal electricity usage was bad for the environment. However I think that thought has persisted with us even though it is no longer true 100% of the time. With renewables sometimes the marginal cost of electricity to our environment is near 0 or even negative (eg, during periods of higher winds and lower demand.) I predict that in the future as bitcoin mining becomes more and more of an efficiency game that you will see bitcoin mining be kind of a load balancer the grid, effectively turning off during peak demand (or low supply) times and contributing to the base load during regular times. For example, it may even help the economics of building new wind plants. Eg, currently it may not be profitable to build a new wind plant because base load is too low that the excess power generated would need to be sold off at 0 or even negative prices. However if bitcoin mining could be turned on during these times and off during periods of high demand, there will need to be fewer peaker plants in operation and it would positively affect the economics of opening a new wind plant. Bitcoin mining only cares about the cost of electricity at a given time, it is not like most other electricity demands that are very time based. With the large variance of electricity generation by renewables, I think bitcoin can in the future help smooth demand according to the real supply/demand curve. It's kind of like a different implementation of the Tesla utility grid batteries. Instead of deploying power, you force the grid to build more renewable capacity (that the miners are paying for) that you use except in peak periods, where you turn off and effectively provide the grid with more power.