4 ms·

To quote a dead comment: "Am I missing something, or are they really being let off with less than a slap on the wrist, and no fines? Not really sending a great

To quote a dead comment: "Am I missing something, or are they really being let off with less than a slap on the wrist, and no fines? Not really sending a great message here, FTC." Agreed. This is one of the most egregious abuses of privacy imagineable.

swebs 6y ago
You can revive a dead comment if you feel it was unjustly killed. Just click the timestamp then click "vouch".
- ndiscussion 6y ago
  Thanks for this, I've heard of this option but assumed it was unavailable to my account.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    It's available to everyone with a fairly reasonable amount of karma (30, I think?)
averysmallbird 6y ago
The FTC brings privacy cases under its 'unfair and deceptive acts or practices in commerce' prohibition, which does not provide it the legal basis to impose civil penalties. There are possibly other things it could have required (the recent Ever case requiring deletion is a good example), but it is currently constrained on what it can force for a first violation. The two Democratic FTC Commissioners issued a useful statement on what else they would have required: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements/1586018/20210112_final_joint_rcrks_statement_on_flo.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements...
zinekeller 6y ago
I do get with the frustration, but with the current state of US (federal) laws it is probably the best remedy available now (unlike GDPR where you can really go and score larger fines and even jail time if it is grossly negligent or intentional).
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  management could be jailed for fraud. it is the usual thing where the powerful we say “best we could do” but for the weak we find a way to get them in jail if we don’t like them
- trollski 6y ago
  i get the frustration. no you dont
philsnow 6y ago
> This is one of the most egregious abuses of privacy imagineable. For people who haven't used these kinds of apps, Flo includes day-by-day tracking of: - sex and sex drive - didn't have sex - protected sex - unprotected sex - high sex drive - masturbation - mood: - calm - happy - [...] - sad - depressed - obsessive thoughts - apathetic - very self-critical - symptoms (cramps, tender breasts, acne, many more) - vaginal discharge (none, spotting, sticky, eggwhite, etc, "unusual") - other (travel, stress, disease/injury, alcohol) There's a ridiculous amount of potential here for just purely creepy oversharing of information that a woman might presume is safe to enter into an app. There's also a lot of things here that are maybe legally dangerous to be disclosing outside of a doctor-patient context (the last several "mood" items). This is abhorrent.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  It's worth pointing out that traditional data brokers are able to track menstrual cycles based on purchase activity. Nobody can opt out of this and it's been going on for a few decades. It can be used for ad targeting by presenting the target with the optimal content for each week.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I did not hear about that one. It does sound interesting. Is there some sort of of study discussing it you could link?
    - manicdee 6y ago
      For me the canonical example is this story in Forbes about a man who complained to Target about baby-product advertising directed at his teenage daughter. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/?sh=4a9fb04b6668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...
      - josefx 6y ago
hombre_fatal 6y ago
I don't see how it's worse than the ubiquitous data brokers built into our society like the private credit bureaus that charge you to access your own data which has a de facto green light from us and our government. It would be inconsistent to punish this little app severely when we don't care about much more egregious violations. It's tragic that we're only able to care about small things that fit into our tiny laser beam of public outrage.

swebs 6y ago

You can revive a dead comment if you feel it was unjustly killed. Just click the timestamp then click "vouch".

ndiscussion 6y ago
Thanks for this, I've heard of this option but assumed it was unavailable to my account.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  It's available to everyone with a fairly reasonable amount of karma (30, I think?)

averysmallbird 6y ago

The FTC brings privacy cases under its 'unfair and deceptive acts or practices in commerce' prohibition, which does not provide it the legal basis to impose civil penalties. There are possibly other things it could have required (the recent Ever case requiring deletion is a good example), but it is currently constrained on what it can force for a first violation. The two Democratic FTC Commissioners issued a useful statement on what else they would have required: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements/1586018/20210112_final_joint_rcrks_statement_on_flo.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements...

zinekeller 6y ago

I do get with the frustration, but with the current state of US (federal) laws it is probably the best remedy available now (unlike GDPR where you can really go and score larger fines and even jail time if it is grossly negligent or intentional).

gameswithgo 6y ago
management could be jailed for fraud. it is the usual thing where the powerful we say “best we could do” but for the weak we find a way to get them in jail if we don’t like them
trollski 6y ago
i get the frustration. no you dont

philsnow 6y ago

> This is one of the most egregious abuses of privacy imagineable. For people who haven't used these kinds of apps, Flo includes day-by-day tracking of: - sex and sex drive - didn't have sex - protected sex - unprotected sex - high sex drive - masturbation - mood: - calm - happy - [...] - sad - depressed - obsessive thoughts - apathetic - very self-critical - symptoms (cramps, tender breasts, acne, many more) - vaginal discharge (none, spotting, sticky, eggwhite, etc, "unusual") - other (travel, stress, disease/injury, alcohol) There's a ridiculous amount of potential here for just purely creepy oversharing of information that a woman might presume is safe to enter into an app. There's also a lot of things here that are maybe legally dangerous to be disclosing outside of a doctor-patient context (the last several "mood" items). This is abhorrent.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
It's worth pointing out that traditional data brokers are able to track menstrual cycles based on purchase activity. Nobody can opt out of this and it's been going on for a few decades. It can be used for ad targeting by presenting the target with the optimal content for each week.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I did not hear about that one. It does sound interesting. Is there some sort of of study discussing it you could link?
  - manicdee 6y ago
    For me the canonical example is this story in Forbes about a man who complained to Target about baby-product advertising directed at his teenage daughter. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/?sh=4a9fb04b6668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...
    - josefx 6y ago

hombre_fatal 6y ago

I don't see how it's worse than the ubiquitous data brokers built into our society like the private credit bureaus that charge you to access your own data which has a de facto green light from us and our government. It would be inconsistent to punish this little app severely when we don't care about much more egregious violations. It's tragic that we're only able to care about small things that fit into our tiny laser beam of public outrage.