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I think it's different for entrepreneur workaholics. Your startup is your baby. It's fun. It's challenging. It's rewarding. And when you're young I think it's

I think it's different for entrepreneur workaholics. Your startup is your baby. It's fun. It's challenging. It's rewarding. And when you're young I think it's great to dedicate to work. You accelerate your learning. You make more money. You meet smart people. I don't know anyone very knowledgeable and skilled for their age that did a work/life balance route. If you are a workaholic but also a learnaholic, then I don't buy that as this toxic thing that can drive mental and physical health issues. Ok, maybe sleep issues. I have a few businesses and I'd rather work on them than spend time on social media like my non-workaholic friends. It's ok for people to say "you work too much", but I don't tell my friends "you spend too much time on Facebook". Maybe I should though? I do agree that it can be a big problem though. Many dedicate themselves to their work because they are escaping something or avoiding other important obligations. If that doesn't apply, then go get it! Life is a hell of a lot more enjoyable when you don't have to worry about finances. My parents told me "you care too much about money". No I care infinitely about NOT worrying about money. There's a difference. You can care about money a lot, be focused on financial freedom and not be a Scrooge and accumulating for no reason.

markus_zhang 6y ago
That's out of my definition of workoholics though. So I could be biased as I'm using my own definition. IMO if you really enjoy your wor then you are not a workoholic.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  I'd agree with you on that too. The article says 7 more hours a week is a workaholic though and based on my experience with friends and family - they too make no distinction on whether you enjoy it or not. Even if you tell them, they don't have that experience to understand. Kind of funny though. Nobody tells an athlete they "train too much". Or a researcher that they "research too much".
  - detaro 6y ago
    > Nobody tells an athlete they "train too much" Given that the side-effects of that are even worse than other over-work, fairly sure that happens. > Or a researcher that they "research too much" Of course they get told that they work too much, or don't let go of work enough. Common stereotype actually.
    - exclusiv 6y ago
      I probably should have worded that better. The elite athletes and professional researchers - sure that happens. I guess I'm trying to say - if it's not your career - if you spent 7+ hours per week training for your physical body, practicing your sport or doing research nobody would say anything about it. So and so is fit and exercises a lot. They look good, that's their jam. So and so is researching a lot or working on a really hard problem. Nice. Good for them. You work harder than the average on your brain and/or business - "you work too much" I'm not sure why people can't differentiate that for many: 1) going above and beyond is necessary to level up (especially to make your business a success) 2) people can find that process enjoyable and rewarding (especially if they do it with people they like) I think the self-employed specifically get a bad rap about "working too much". I'm sure there are some fortunate souls, but I don't know any business owners that clocked in and clocked out average work weeks to success. Although I agree that there's a workaholic problem for many as they scale the ladder or consume themselves with work to avoid some other issue in their life. I just don't like the notion that if you work more than the average Joe you don't have a work/life balance or it will cause all these issues. Just pulled this up and its worse than I would have guessed - "Only 15% of workers are engaged at their job". This is globally. In the US it's 30% engaged [1] That's pretty telling to me then. If you aren't engaged at your job - you will think 7 more hours a week is a bad idea and a workaholic. And probably make yourself feel better about using those 7 hours for your hobby or whatever is not your "engaged job" [1] https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken-workplace.aspx?g_source=position1&g_medium=related&g_campaign=tiles https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
bradstewart 6y ago
The important distinction, for me, is the self-awareness to truly chose to work more and understand what you're giving up in the process. I spent a long time being sucked into overworking primarily because I wanted to avoid some aspect of my life without realizing it. I compromised relationships, stopped hobbies that made me relaxed and happy--again without realizing it. It's scary how life can just pass by while you're in a state like that. But as long as you're aware of what you're doing, why you're doing it, and the "life debt" you're taking on--rock and roll. Pouring yourself into creating something really is an incredible thing.
scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
You do know that social media is not the only thing one can do outside of work, right? Like, there are ways of spending time living that don’t revolve around trying to make “gains”; social, financial or any other kind. Maybe this is something that your parents mean - they’re expressing a worry over whether you’re getting value out of life, as you’re hustling through all those businesses you seem to be running? I notice entrepreneurs using the baby analogy a lot. It’s an interesting distortion of reality...
- redisman 6y ago
  Hilarious how the parent comment seems to categorize the whole rest of life on earth as “meh they’re probably on Facebook”. You know there’s nature, art, other intellectual pursuits, people, using your body in various ways etc.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    Snarky much? I specifically mentioned friends. Anyway, globally I know most are on average. "On average, global internet users spent 144 minutes on social media sites every day" The Philippines spends almost 4 hours a day. I obviously know there are things to do that are not social media. No need to be snarky. I just find that most of the people that have mentioned "you work too much" are heavier than the average social media user. [1] https://www.digitalmarketing.org/blog/how-much-time-does-the-average-person-spend-on-social-media https://www.digitalmarketing.org/blog/how-much-time-does-the...
- exclusiv 6y ago
  No my parents misunderstand. They are constantly worrying about money. Some people I think just see others working hard and it's framed on their experience of work. I grew up a latch key kid and they worked very hard to help me get a great education. Based on this upbringing, I started my family later. As I had planned, I have no financial worries. That unlocks a lot of freedom. > Like, there are ways of spending time living that don’t revolve around trying to make “gains”; social, financial or any other kind. No there are not. Everything has a gain of some sort. Even charity work or meditation. > I notice entrepreneurs using the baby analogy a lot. It’s an interesting distortion of reality... I have kids and I don't think it's a distortion from that. You also have to remember that a lot of people choose not to have kids. So yes, that is their figurative baby. Some others may have a dog.

markus_zhang 6y ago

That's out of my definition of workoholics though. So I could be biased as I'm using my own definition. IMO if you really enjoy your wor then you are not a workoholic.

exclusiv 6y ago
I'd agree with you on that too. The article says 7 more hours a week is a workaholic though and based on my experience with friends and family - they too make no distinction on whether you enjoy it or not. Even if you tell them, they don't have that experience to understand. Kind of funny though. Nobody tells an athlete they "train too much". Or a researcher that they "research too much".
- detaro 6y ago
  > Nobody tells an athlete they "train too much" Given that the side-effects of that are even worse than other over-work, fairly sure that happens. > Or a researcher that they "research too much" Of course they get told that they work too much, or don't let go of work enough. Common stereotype actually.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    I probably should have worded that better. The elite athletes and professional researchers - sure that happens. I guess I'm trying to say - if it's not your career - if you spent 7+ hours per week training for your physical body, practicing your sport or doing research nobody would say anything about it. So and so is fit and exercises a lot. They look good, that's their jam. So and so is researching a lot or working on a really hard problem. Nice. Good for them. You work harder than the average on your brain and/or business - "you work too much" I'm not sure why people can't differentiate that for many: 1) going above and beyond is necessary to level up (especially to make your business a success) 2) people can find that process enjoyable and rewarding (especially if they do it with people they like) I think the self-employed specifically get a bad rap about "working too much". I'm sure there are some fortunate souls, but I don't know any business owners that clocked in and clocked out average work weeks to success. Although I agree that there's a workaholic problem for many as they scale the ladder or consume themselves with work to avoid some other issue in their life. I just don't like the notion that if you work more than the average Joe you don't have a work/life balance or it will cause all these issues. Just pulled this up and its worse than I would have guessed - "Only 15% of workers are engaged at their job". This is globally. In the US it's 30% engaged [1] That's pretty telling to me then. If you aren't engaged at your job - you will think 7 more hours a week is a bad idea and a workaholic. And probably make yourself feel better about using those 7 hours for your hobby or whatever is not your "engaged job" [1] https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken-workplace.aspx?g_source=position1&g_medium=related&g_campaign=tiles https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

bradstewart 6y ago

The important distinction, for me, is the self-awareness to truly chose to work more and understand what you're giving up in the process. I spent a long time being sucked into overworking primarily because I wanted to avoid some aspect of my life without realizing it. I compromised relationships, stopped hobbies that made me relaxed and happy--again without realizing it. It's scary how life can just pass by while you're in a state like that. But as long as you're aware of what you're doing, why you're doing it, and the "life debt" you're taking on--rock and roll. Pouring yourself into creating something really is an incredible thing.

scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago

You do know that social media is not the only thing one can do outside of work, right? Like, there are ways of spending time living that don’t revolve around trying to make “gains”; social, financial or any other kind. Maybe this is something that your parents mean - they’re expressing a worry over whether you’re getting value out of life, as you’re hustling through all those businesses you seem to be running? I notice entrepreneurs using the baby analogy a lot. It’s an interesting distortion of reality...

redisman 6y ago
Hilarious how the parent comment seems to categorize the whole rest of life on earth as “meh they’re probably on Facebook”. You know there’s nature, art, other intellectual pursuits, people, using your body in various ways etc.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  Snarky much? I specifically mentioned friends. Anyway, globally I know most are on average. "On average, global internet users spent 144 minutes on social media sites every day" The Philippines spends almost 4 hours a day. I obviously know there are things to do that are not social media. No need to be snarky. I just find that most of the people that have mentioned "you work too much" are heavier than the average social media user. [1] https://www.digitalmarketing.org/blog/how-much-time-does-the-average-person-spend-on-social-media https://www.digitalmarketing.org/blog/how-much-time-does-the...
exclusiv 6y ago
No my parents misunderstand. They are constantly worrying about money. Some people I think just see others working hard and it's framed on their experience of work. I grew up a latch key kid and they worked very hard to help me get a great education. Based on this upbringing, I started my family later. As I had planned, I have no financial worries. That unlocks a lot of freedom. > Like, there are ways of spending time living that don’t revolve around trying to make “gains”; social, financial or any other kind. No there are not. Everything has a gain of some sort. Even charity work or meditation. > I notice entrepreneurs using the baby analogy a lot. It’s an interesting distortion of reality... I have kids and I don't think it's a distortion from that. You also have to remember that a lot of people choose not to have kids. So yes, that is their figurative baby. Some others may have a dog.