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So I'm a secondary school teacher, and I have tried this. Several times, with several classes (math and introductory chemistry/physics). The issue is the kids t

So I'm a secondary school teacher, and I have tried this. Several times, with several classes (math and introductory chemistry/physics). The issue is the kids think of it as not having any work. So they do nothing while at home, which then means I end up having to teach the content anyway. It just doesn't work because the kids are responsible and refuse to do stuff at home, meaning I have to teach what they should've learned and at least been able to discuss. And it's not a matter of them not understanding the material, it's that they openly admit they didn't watch/read it and don't think they have to.

tenacious_tuna 6y ago
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you think it would be effective to segregate students by ability and/or motivation? That way you could let the motivated/interested/whatever students self-direct, and otherwise more efficiently spend your time with those who aren't self-motivated?
- dorchadas 6y ago
  I think that's absolutely the key, honestly and it's why I'm a fan of AP/accelerated courses where at all possible. I also think ability grouping is great as you can work with students of lower ability without having to worry about those with higher ability being bored. I think that you need contact with those who aren't self-motivated, even if that's live classes they have to attend, as then they know there's accountability. But I do think that a good self-motivated learner, who knows how to learn would greatly benefit from just reading texts/watching quality videos (while taking notes) and having a teacher to basically ask questions to when needed. Sadly, I'm not sure how much of the grouping I'd like to see is legal. I know my school got in trouble for offering 'Core' classes which were basically remedial education classes in core content areas (So you'd have 'accelerated algebra 2', 'algebra 2' and 'core algebra 2'), which worked as you could find ways to focus on real-life examples for those students, but gave rise to a host of other issues. But, overall, I see the only real way to do online learning entirely is through group segregation, at least at the secondary level. Hearing some of our AP teachers complain, it'd almost need to be a double split -- one on ability and one on motivation. Of course, a lot of the latter, in my opinion, stems from the culture of the area. Sadly I'm in a rural area where well-paying jobs used to be plentiful right out of high school (or even without a degree!) and so a very anti-intellectual culture developed. Sadly, even though those jobs aren't present, the culture stays as most who have other values move out and leave. Me and a few of my colleagues (all from the area) are exceptions, but I know several of us would leave if we could. So you're also fighting a cultural battle on top of all the other stuff.
pirocks 6y ago
I sometimes was one of the students who didn't do the reading. Almost always one or more of the following was true: 1. The reading wasn't immediately relevant to getting a decent grade in the class. 2. The class was obscenely boring and in no way relevant to my future life. 3. The whole class didn't do it either so we where going to repeat the whole thing in class anyway.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  > 2. The class was obscenely boring and in no way relevant to my future life. This is the attitude that I think is the problem. It comes down to what we think the purpose of education should be, and that's where there's a fundamental disconnect. For what it's worth, I see the point, but I think the purpose of education should be producing a student with basic understanding of a variety of subjects, not just teaching what is relevant to their future life.

tenacious_tuna 6y ago

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you think it would be effective to segregate students by ability and/or motivation? That way you could let the motivated/interested/whatever students self-direct, and otherwise more efficiently spend your time with those who aren't self-motivated?

dorchadas 6y ago
I think that's absolutely the key, honestly and it's why I'm a fan of AP/accelerated courses where at all possible. I also think ability grouping is great as you can work with students of lower ability without having to worry about those with higher ability being bored. I think that you need contact with those who aren't self-motivated, even if that's live classes they have to attend, as then they know there's accountability. But I do think that a good self-motivated learner, who knows how to learn would greatly benefit from just reading texts/watching quality videos (while taking notes) and having a teacher to basically ask questions to when needed. Sadly, I'm not sure how much of the grouping I'd like to see is legal. I know my school got in trouble for offering 'Core' classes which were basically remedial education classes in core content areas (So you'd have 'accelerated algebra 2', 'algebra 2' and 'core algebra 2'), which worked as you could find ways to focus on real-life examples for those students, but gave rise to a host of other issues. But, overall, I see the only real way to do online learning entirely is through group segregation, at least at the secondary level. Hearing some of our AP teachers complain, it'd almost need to be a double split -- one on ability and one on motivation. Of course, a lot of the latter, in my opinion, stems from the culture of the area. Sadly I'm in a rural area where well-paying jobs used to be plentiful right out of high school (or even without a degree!) and so a very anti-intellectual culture developed. Sadly, even though those jobs aren't present, the culture stays as most who have other values move out and leave. Me and a few of my colleagues (all from the area) are exceptions, but I know several of us would leave if we could. So you're also fighting a cultural battle on top of all the other stuff.

pirocks 6y ago

I sometimes was one of the students who didn't do the reading. Almost always one or more of the following was true: 1. The reading wasn't immediately relevant to getting a decent grade in the class. 2. The class was obscenely boring and in no way relevant to my future life. 3. The whole class didn't do it either so we where going to repeat the whole thing in class anyway.

dorchadas 6y ago
> 2. The class was obscenely boring and in no way relevant to my future life. This is the attitude that I think is the problem. It comes down to what we think the purpose of education should be, and that's where there's a fundamental disconnect. For what it's worth, I see the point, but I think the purpose of education should be producing a student with basic understanding of a variety of subjects, not just teaching what is relevant to their future life.