10 ms·

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on the rest of the team cancels it out. Seriously, one rude comment in the morning can throw a developer off for the rest of the day, it's not worth it. "Man what's up with frank today?" "Oh he was pulling an all-nighter doing a non-urgent task." "Did anybody ask him to?" "No. In fact we asked him to stop." I consider independent study, side-projects, reading a good book, smoking some dope, cooking a good meal with my partner, getting enough sleep, relaxing, and exercising(!!!!) part of my job. I don't care what kind of mutant you THINK you are, you will perform better if you go to bed and get a full nights rest and clean your brain out. It is just science. Finally, while it is true that "work more = better review at work", it's just... not worth it. If your job is your whole life and you are not making +200k: GET A LIFE. You have better things to do with your time than make some other man money. Work is a "safe place." Time goes in, money comes out. But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time.

aerosmile 6y ago
I found it interesting that you put a price tag on it. Also, $200k is about $150k more than most people make, but if you look at just the workaholic population and isolate for industries such as finance and law, many people in that group are going to be within the shooting range of that threshold. And there you have it - even within your own framework, it becomes understandable why we have so many workaholics. My point is - the moment you put a price tag on your work-life balance, it becomes very difficult to escape the rat race. You really have to be quite militant about it or otherwise it won't work.
- mrkstu 6y ago
  The difference is if you can get enough distance between your expenses and your income, you can completely escape the rat race in a significantly earlier timeframe. For many outside of the ultra high cost of living zones, 200k is about that cut off level where you can reach escape velocity.
  - aerosmile 6y ago
    I should have clarified that I am not passing judgment on being a workaholic or not. I spent the majority of my working career as a workaholic, although I did try to escape it on a few occasions. The first and only time it worked was when I made it a non-negotiable part of my work to carve out certain lifestyle demands. At the time, it seemed quite likely that this could trigger some negative consequences, and as someone who worked hard on building a career, it wasn't an easy decision to consciously take a few steps back. I only pulled through because of the conviction that it had to happen. In an alternate universe, I would have stayed a workaholic and would likely retire earlier than I will now. Both are good options IMO. The choices I made have to do with how I want to spend my free time - my favorite hobby requires top physical fitness, and I won't be able to pursue it semi-competitively for many more years.
robbyking 6y ago
I'm lucky that before Covid I was able to walk to work so I was never bound by traffic or transportation schedules, but I definitely have friends and coworkers who "miss their bus" so they'll get home after their kids are down. (For those of you without kids, a lot of pre-schoolers go to bed at 7.)
justathrowa 6y ago
>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I've found was that in the times of idleness though I've thought more and more about suicide. The Christmas holidays were some of the first I've had to have an entire week to myself and I spent most of it was spent testing methods for speed, logistics, and discomfort, as well as scouting suitable locations; somewhere that would force an EMS / police arrival on site by 10 minutes or so. Updated my will and managed to work out the logistics of transferring all my assets to to remaining family quickly when I finally make the decision to kill myself. Never in my life has it gotten this far before; never really had time to seriously think about until now. I'd imagine that most people though would probably be more fine with a miserably but living workaholic, then a corpse dead of suicide. As such, could you really say that is working long hours such is really unhealthy? Or such a terrible thing?
- abcdjdjd 6y ago
  >As such, could you really say that is working long hours such is really unhealthy? Or such a terrible thing? Yes, yes it is. It sounds like you are simply using work as a distraction from your problems instead of addressing them. Our society is becoming more and more disconnected as everyone is working way too much. We should be working less, not more. Less work means people can spend more time doing things they enjoy, socializing, doing things they need to do outside work, and having more time to relax and probably sleep.
  - jolmg 6y ago
    > using work as a distraction from your problems instead of addressing them Some problems can't be addressed, but one can learn to live happily in spite of them. I think finding a distraction is a fine way of doing that. Relative to other options, work seems like a very healthy distraction if it works.
- 6y ago
thebean11 6y ago
> If your job is your whole life and you are not making +200k: GET A LIFE Tons of people on this forum are making that much, would not recommend workaholism for them either
lqet 6y ago
> "Man what's up with frank today?" > "Oh he was pulling an all-nighter doing a non-urgent task." > "Did anybody ask him to?" > "No. In fact we asked him to stop." When I am doing this, it is usually because I have the strong feeling that I am in complete control of the problem right now, hours after midnight. Two fears then kick it: will I make it to this point of control a second time in the near future (3-6 months)? Will I even remember the extremely abstract concepts a few days from now? To me, the answer (confirmed by experience) is often: most likely not, better finish it now.
- r00fus 6y ago
  After you create your masterpiece of code, do you know enough to document and understand it later (so you can pass it on to others)? Having been in the zone, I completely sympathize with the view that productivity isn't constant; that the cost to your health is worth the leap... Have you ever had that feeling and then realized in the morning/next day that your feeling was illusory and you actually took the harder path?
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    For me it's more about getting the idea out of my head. The code wouldn't be a finished product, but more like a brain dump.
- bradstewart 6y ago
  I know the feeling. In college (and for a year or so right after), I had the same answer. A few years later, I've finally realized that any code I write at 2am almost always needs to be fixed--often substantially--soon after. I miss things. I write stupid bugs. I don't see the requirements clearly. I've found writing things down (sometimes a few words, sometimes a few pages), sleeping on it, and reviewing those notes first thing in the morning--before email, before showering, before anything--to be a much a better strategy. YMMV, of course.
dheera 6y ago
Maybe they were doing it to get promoted? Sad reality is often promotions go to the workaholics instead of the people who take care of themselves.
fairity 6y ago
> One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. >The effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on the rest of the team cancels it out. > You will perform better if you go to bed and get a full nights rest and clean your brain out All of these claims are situational and often untrue. It's entirely possible for workaholics to be more productive, inter-personally smooth, and a team player. The most convincing reason to not be a workaholic is not that it's a counter-productive effort. It's that workaholism will lead to decreased long-term fulfillment (for most people).

aerosmile 6y ago

I found it interesting that you put a price tag on it. Also, $200k is about $150k more than most people make, but if you look at just the workaholic population and isolate for industries such as finance and law, many people in that group are going to be within the shooting range of that threshold. And there you have it - even within your own framework, it becomes understandable why we have so many workaholics. My point is - the moment you put a price tag on your work-life balance, it becomes very difficult to escape the rat race. You really have to be quite militant about it or otherwise it won't work.

mrkstu 6y ago
The difference is if you can get enough distance between your expenses and your income, you can completely escape the rat race in a significantly earlier timeframe. For many outside of the ultra high cost of living zones, 200k is about that cut off level where you can reach escape velocity.
- aerosmile 6y ago
  I should have clarified that I am not passing judgment on being a workaholic or not. I spent the majority of my working career as a workaholic, although I did try to escape it on a few occasions. The first and only time it worked was when I made it a non-negotiable part of my work to carve out certain lifestyle demands. At the time, it seemed quite likely that this could trigger some negative consequences, and as someone who worked hard on building a career, it wasn't an easy decision to consciously take a few steps back. I only pulled through because of the conviction that it had to happen. In an alternate universe, I would have stayed a workaholic and would likely retire earlier than I will now. Both are good options IMO. The choices I made have to do with how I want to spend my free time - my favorite hobby requires top physical fitness, and I won't be able to pursue it semi-competitively for many more years.

robbyking 6y ago

I'm lucky that before Covid I was able to walk to work so I was never bound by traffic or transportation schedules, but I definitely have friends and coworkers who "miss their bus" so they'll get home after their kids are down. (For those of you without kids, a lot of pre-schoolers go to bed at 7.)

justathrowa 6y ago

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I've found was that in the times of idleness though I've thought more and more about suicide. The Christmas holidays were some of the first I've had to have an entire week to myself and I spent most of it was spent testing methods for speed, logistics, and discomfort, as well as scouting suitable locations; somewhere that would force an EMS / police arrival on site by 10 minutes or so. Updated my will and managed to work out the logistics of transferring all my assets to to remaining family quickly when I finally make the decision to kill myself. Never in my life has it gotten this far before; never really had time to seriously think about until now. I'd imagine that most people though would probably be more fine with a miserably but living workaholic, then a corpse dead of suicide. As such, could you really say that is working long hours such is really unhealthy? Or such a terrible thing?

abcdjdjd 6y ago
>As such, could you really say that is working long hours such is really unhealthy? Or such a terrible thing? Yes, yes it is. It sounds like you are simply using work as a distraction from your problems instead of addressing them. Our society is becoming more and more disconnected as everyone is working way too much. We should be working less, not more. Less work means people can spend more time doing things they enjoy, socializing, doing things they need to do outside work, and having more time to relax and probably sleep.
- jolmg 6y ago
  > using work as a distraction from your problems instead of addressing them Some problems can't be addressed, but one can learn to live happily in spite of them. I think finding a distraction is a fine way of doing that. Relative to other options, work seems like a very healthy distraction if it works.
6y ago

thebean11 6y ago

> If your job is your whole life and you are not making +200k: GET A LIFE Tons of people on this forum are making that much, would not recommend workaholism for them either

lqet 6y ago

> "Man what's up with frank today?" > "Oh he was pulling an all-nighter doing a non-urgent task." > "Did anybody ask him to?" > "No. In fact we asked him to stop." When I am doing this, it is usually because I have the strong feeling that I am in complete control of the problem right now, hours after midnight. Two fears then kick it: will I make it to this point of control a second time in the near future (3-6 months)? Will I even remember the extremely abstract concepts a few days from now? To me, the answer (confirmed by experience) is often: most likely not, better finish it now.

r00fus 6y ago
After you create your masterpiece of code, do you know enough to document and understand it later (so you can pass it on to others)? Having been in the zone, I completely sympathize with the view that productivity isn't constant; that the cost to your health is worth the leap... Have you ever had that feeling and then realized in the morning/next day that your feeling was illusory and you actually took the harder path?
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  For me it's more about getting the idea out of my head. The code wouldn't be a finished product, but more like a brain dump.
bradstewart 6y ago
I know the feeling. In college (and for a year or so right after), I had the same answer. A few years later, I've finally realized that any code I write at 2am almost always needs to be fixed--often substantially--soon after. I miss things. I write stupid bugs. I don't see the requirements clearly. I've found writing things down (sometimes a few words, sometimes a few pages), sleeping on it, and reviewing those notes first thing in the morning--before email, before showering, before anything--to be a much a better strategy. YMMV, of course.

dheera 6y ago

Maybe they were doing it to get promoted? Sad reality is often promotions go to the workaholics instead of the people who take care of themselves.

fairity 6y ago

> One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. >The effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on the rest of the team cancels it out. > You will perform better if you go to bed and get a full nights rest and clean your brain out All of these claims are situational and often untrue. It's entirely possible for workaholics to be more productive, inter-personally smooth, and a team player. The most convincing reason to not be a workaholic is not that it's a counter-productive effort. It's that workaholism will lead to decreased long-term fulfillment (for most people).