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They can still protest it, although why you’d protest a free and fair election is beyond me.

BitwiseFool 6y ago
They're protesting because they think it wasn't free and fair. Edit: What's controversial about this? This is literally stating what the protestors think.
- rchaud 6y ago
  And that claim has been evaluated in 40 different courts, and debunked. At what point does simply thinking something take precedence over the need for a peaceful transition of power?
  - caseysoftware 6y ago
    I've heard that but can't find the cases went into discovery and were heard to weigh those claims. Do you know which cases did? I'd love to read the details because that's not "debunking" but outright "disproving" which would be immensely useful.
    - rchaud 6y ago
      "Debunked" wasn't the right word. They were tossed by the judges for lack of evidence.
      - caseysoftware 6y ago
        I believe legally, those would be claims or allegations, not evidence. I'm still hoping to find cases that went into discovery and the evidence (not just allegations) were torn apart and evaluated. So far I've only found lack of standing and latches so not particularly helpful.
hoka-one-one 6y ago
Nice bait, I'll go get my rod
moduspol 6y ago
There was certainly no shortage during / following the incumbent president's inauguration.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
It isn't unreasonable that people wish to publicly express their discontent with the choice their peers made even if they don't believe any rules were broken. My own state saw a lot of protests when a certain politician was elected governor despite no one seriously suggesting the election was rigged in his favor. If nothing else, it shows the incoming politician that they do not have the support of a large number of their constituents and therefor have no claim to a mandate.
cjones26 6y ago
There is so much proof of fraud that people are turning a blind eye to it's baffling. Not only are there thousands of affidavits, the violation of Benford's law also raises red flags. Why would anyone want to deny signature verification, delete voting data, block windows, bar observsers, etc. if they had nothing to hide? Naturally the media is going to go to bat for the side they support, as they always do, but the evidence is overwhelming that something fishy occurred. Downvoting me because you disagree won't change the facts.
- JulianMorrison 6y ago
  This is just false, as has been repeatedly examined in various courts. If you have non-debunked evidence to the contrary, when everyone else has gone looking and found nothing, perhaps you ought to present it?
  - cjones26 6y ago
    I'm not going to argue with you as you seem to have a completely fixed viewpoint, which I am assume no amount of evidence will shake. You can do the research yourself if you are so inclined. You reference the dismissed court cases, as if courts solely prove or disprove the validity of information--regardless, I'll leave you with this: "Republicans argue that since their observers couldn’t watch the vote count, they can’t provide that evidence and have asked for discovery. Still, while the courts have agreed that irregularities have occurred, they weren’t willing to grant discovery unless Republicans first present enough evidence of fraud to overturn the election. Republicans thus faced a kind of Catch 22." Source: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3756988 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3756988
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      > no amount of evidence Surely some amount greater than zero would be a start, however. Citing statistics isn't a great first choice, since it's so easy to retroactively fit statistics to whatever outcome you want to see. Fraud on the scale you are alleging would leave a hell of a lot of evidence that couldn't possibly be completely swept under the rug. A misapplication of Benford's Law is a really weak argument.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> although why you’d protest a free and fair election is beyond me. Protests of discontent against duly elected politicians serve to remind that politician of the people's will, which the politician is supposed to represent during his time in office. Also, since politicians are usually concerned with reelection, protests show them a demographic that they might have to satisfy somehow in order to secure that reelection. Sure, people coming out to protest Biden’s inauguration are likely to be an extremist fringe and there is little that a Biden administration could do to immediately satisfy them. But the fact that large numbers of citizens can come together to voice any idea peacefully, no matter how weird, has historically been concerned a good thing in the West.
im3w1l 6y ago
Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done and statistically speaking it was not seen to be done. "Although there’s no widespread evidence of election fraud, fully 72 percent of Republicans say they don’t trust the presidential election results."[0] That article was from December, so things may have changed since. But it's clear that something is seriously wrong when the distrust numbers are that large. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/22/do-republicans-really-believe-election-was-stolen-or-are-they-just-saying-that https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/22/do-republ...
- multjoy 6y ago
  If the distrust numbers are so large despite no evidence of any fraud at all, then perhaps the problem is not the election but whoever is talking to 72% of the republicans...
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    The normal burden of proof: is there evidence of crime? But maybe the system needs to go further than that, and demonstrate that it is sound. Outreach? Meet and greet the counters? Count watching party (in the sense of cookies and soft drinks)? Some conspiracy theorists might never be convinced, but this is more than that.
eplanit 6y ago
Really? After 4 years of unrelenting conspiracy theories that the 2016 election was not "free and fair", I find that an interesting comment.
dang 6y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

They're protesting because they think it wasn't free and fair. Edit: What's controversial about this? This is literally stating what the protestors think.

rchaud 6y ago
And that claim has been evaluated in 40 different courts, and debunked. At what point does simply thinking something take precedence over the need for a peaceful transition of power?
- caseysoftware 6y ago
  I've heard that but can't find the cases went into discovery and were heard to weigh those claims. Do you know which cases did? I'd love to read the details because that's not "debunking" but outright "disproving" which would be immensely useful.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    "Debunked" wasn't the right word. They were tossed by the judges for lack of evidence.
    - caseysoftware 6y ago
      I believe legally, those would be claims or allegations, not evidence. I'm still hoping to find cases that went into discovery and the evidence (not just allegations) were torn apart and evaluated. So far I've only found lack of standing and latches so not particularly helpful.

hoka-one-one 6y ago

Nice bait, I'll go get my rod

moduspol 6y ago

There was certainly no shortage during / following the incumbent president's inauguration.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

It isn't unreasonable that people wish to publicly express their discontent with the choice their peers made even if they don't believe any rules were broken. My own state saw a lot of protests when a certain politician was elected governor despite no one seriously suggesting the election was rigged in his favor. If nothing else, it shows the incoming politician that they do not have the support of a large number of their constituents and therefor have no claim to a mandate.

cjones26 6y ago

There is so much proof of fraud that people are turning a blind eye to it's baffling. Not only are there thousands of affidavits, the violation of Benford's law also raises red flags. Why would anyone want to deny signature verification, delete voting data, block windows, bar observsers, etc. if they had nothing to hide? Naturally the media is going to go to bat for the side they support, as they always do, but the evidence is overwhelming that something fishy occurred. Downvoting me because you disagree won't change the facts.

JulianMorrison 6y ago
This is just false, as has been repeatedly examined in various courts. If you have non-debunked evidence to the contrary, when everyone else has gone looking and found nothing, perhaps you ought to present it?
- cjones26 6y ago
  I'm not going to argue with you as you seem to have a completely fixed viewpoint, which I am assume no amount of evidence will shake. You can do the research yourself if you are so inclined. You reference the dismissed court cases, as if courts solely prove or disprove the validity of information--regardless, I'll leave you with this: "Republicans argue that since their observers couldn’t watch the vote count, they can’t provide that evidence and have asked for discovery. Still, while the courts have agreed that irregularities have occurred, they weren’t willing to grant discovery unless Republicans first present enough evidence of fraud to overturn the election. Republicans thus faced a kind of Catch 22." Source: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3756988 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3756988
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    > no amount of evidence Surely some amount greater than zero would be a start, however. Citing statistics isn't a great first choice, since it's so easy to retroactively fit statistics to whatever outcome you want to see. Fraud on the scale you are alleging would leave a hell of a lot of evidence that couldn't possibly be completely swept under the rug. A misapplication of Benford's Law is a really weak argument.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

> although why you’d protest a free and fair election is beyond me. Protests of discontent against duly elected politicians serve to remind that politician of the people's will, which the politician is supposed to represent during his time in office. Also, since politicians are usually concerned with reelection, protests show them a demographic that they might have to satisfy somehow in order to secure that reelection. Sure, people coming out to protest Biden’s inauguration are likely to be an extremist fringe and there is little that a Biden administration could do to immediately satisfy them. But the fact that large numbers of citizens can come together to voice any idea peacefully, no matter how weird, has historically been concerned a good thing in the West.

im3w1l 6y ago

Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done and statistically speaking it was not seen to be done. "Although there’s no widespread evidence of election fraud, fully 72 percent of Republicans say they don’t trust the presidential election results."[0] That article was from December, so things may have changed since. But it's clear that something is seriously wrong when the distrust numbers are that large. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/22/do-republicans-really-believe-election-was-stolen-or-are-they-just-saying-that https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/22/do-republ...

multjoy 6y ago
If the distrust numbers are so large despite no evidence of any fraud at all, then perhaps the problem is not the election but whoever is talking to 72% of the republicans...
- im3w1l 6y ago
  The normal burden of proof: is there evidence of crime? But maybe the system needs to go further than that, and demonstrate that it is sound. Outreach? Meet and greet the counters? Count watching party (in the sense of cookies and soft drinks)? Some conspiracy theorists might never be convinced, but this is more than that.

eplanit 6y ago

Really? After 4 years of unrelenting conspiracy theories that the 2016 election was not "free and fair", I find that an interesting comment.

dang 6y ago

Please don't post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html