5 ms·

As an outsider I think it's really interesting that how a class issue (rich vs poor) became purely a race issue. Of course they come together to some extent bu

As an outsider I think it's really interesting that how a class issue (rich vs poor) became purely a race issue. Of course they come together to some extent but I think the root cause is the economic inequality no matter what. Yet like now Apple most companies will only focus explicitly on two groups (blacks and browns). Honestly nothing will change on the long term while the 1% keeps its position and they can divide the regular public.

blisterpeanuts 6y ago
It's long been said that you can mix ethnicities and races but you can't mix economic classes. Americans have yet to understand this clearly. The integration of New York City neighborhoods in the 1960s-70s led to massive white flight out of the city, lowering the middle class population drastically and destroying stable districts. Was it worth it? Some claim yes, others claim no. I believe the city made a mistake by buying up property and giving it to lower income ethnic minorities to forcibly integrate neighborhoods, rather than encourage organic integration by business investment, tax breaks, opportunity zones, etc.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > rather than encourage organic integration by business investment, tax breaks, opportunity zones, etc. We've had a few decades of this - it has not really done much and racial wealth inequality is still massive, while informal segregation is at the highest levels it has ever been since Brown v. Board.
whimsicalism 6y ago
Yes & no. I agree that race is not the be all/end all, but the racial wealth gap in the states is so great that when you're talking about low income/poverty, there is huge overlap between race and class status. Obviously Apple has no vested interested in combatting wealth inequality, but I think that any movement against inequality needs to also recognize how vast and rampant racial wealth inequality is.
- tgv 6y ago
  Then don't be surprised when the non-black underclass groups on the right, and the divide continues. If the racial wealth gap is big, it can be closed by simply supporting the poorest groups. No need to exclude people who happen to share their skin color with the modal billionaire.
  - myspy 6y ago
    Well, the last time I checked, the people in the US didn't want any social security systems for everyone to help the poor, because black Americans would also profit from it. At least that's what comes up in the occasional article about these issues. Racism is apparently an obstacle here.
    - tgv 6y ago
      > Well, the last time I checked, the people in the US didn't want any social security systems for everyone to help the poor, because black Americans would also profit from it. I don't see why a racist opinion would matter, even if the whole group were white as a lily and too poor to live. > Racism is apparently an obstacle here. And it probably is, but this approach is not going to help overcome that.
  - thoughtstheseus 6y ago
    Rural America agrees with you.
pokstad 6y ago
Well said. Poor people come in all colors. Help everyone by donating to inclusive organizations.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
One of the problems with trying to solve poverty is that focusing on "poor people" is a method that helps keep people stuck because you have to be poor to get the help. Focusing on other characteristics that tend to correlate to poverty is a more effective means to break the cycle.
- monopoledance 6y ago
  That's actually a good point. Tho, I think class is more than just income. E.g. you don't become upper class as a prostitute or drug dealer, just because you manged to get by well. Either way, within a class a white man will still have better chances for influence and freedom than a black trans woman. So gender and "race" are not obsolete classifications. However, I think any sense of identity is the cognitive fallout of experiencing lack of self-efficacy, chronically. Seeing the increase in white men building an identity around being "white" and male, too, indicates a wide decrease in class mobility. Pitching those identities against each other is indeed class warfare. Based Tucker Carlson: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/fwnwft/peak_auth_unity_achieved/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/fwnw...
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
Most of the social justice thrust that comes into the mainstream is just upper-class people trying to minimize analysis of themselves and construct an elaborate belief system to cast themselves as moral actors.
cambalache 6y ago
This is not by chance, this was by design. Hyperfocusing on race, sexual orientation and gender helps to significantly downplay the class, economic and geographical differences. So in this world Taylor Swift, Colin Kaepernick,Tim Cook and Caytlin Jenner are helpless victims of the system while a poor white unemployed Oklahoman or a Bulgarian truck driver are little better that vermins because they are at the helm of an hypothetical totem pole. supposedly calling all the shots.

blisterpeanuts 6y ago

It's long been said that you can mix ethnicities and races but you can't mix economic classes. Americans have yet to understand this clearly. The integration of New York City neighborhoods in the 1960s-70s led to massive white flight out of the city, lowering the middle class population drastically and destroying stable districts. Was it worth it? Some claim yes, others claim no. I believe the city made a mistake by buying up property and giving it to lower income ethnic minorities to forcibly integrate neighborhoods, rather than encourage organic integration by business investment, tax breaks, opportunity zones, etc.

whimsicalism 6y ago
> rather than encourage organic integration by business investment, tax breaks, opportunity zones, etc. We've had a few decades of this - it has not really done much and racial wealth inequality is still massive, while informal segregation is at the highest levels it has ever been since Brown v. Board.

whimsicalism 6y ago

Yes & no. I agree that race is not the be all/end all, but the racial wealth gap in the states is so great that when you're talking about low income/poverty, there is huge overlap between race and class status. Obviously Apple has no vested interested in combatting wealth inequality, but I think that any movement against inequality needs to also recognize how vast and rampant racial wealth inequality is.

tgv 6y ago
Then don't be surprised when the non-black underclass groups on the right, and the divide continues. If the racial wealth gap is big, it can be closed by simply supporting the poorest groups. No need to exclude people who happen to share their skin color with the modal billionaire.
- myspy 6y ago
  Well, the last time I checked, the people in the US didn't want any social security systems for everyone to help the poor, because black Americans would also profit from it. At least that's what comes up in the occasional article about these issues. Racism is apparently an obstacle here.
  - tgv 6y ago
    > Well, the last time I checked, the people in the US didn't want any social security systems for everyone to help the poor, because black Americans would also profit from it. I don't see why a racist opinion would matter, even if the whole group were white as a lily and too poor to live. > Racism is apparently an obstacle here. And it probably is, but this approach is not going to help overcome that.
- thoughtstheseus 6y ago
  Rural America agrees with you.

pokstad 6y ago

Well said. Poor people come in all colors. Help everyone by donating to inclusive organizations.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

One of the problems with trying to solve poverty is that focusing on "poor people" is a method that helps keep people stuck because you have to be poor to get the help. Focusing on other characteristics that tend to correlate to poverty is a more effective means to break the cycle.

monopoledance 6y ago
That's actually a good point. Tho, I think class is more than just income. E.g. you don't become upper class as a prostitute or drug dealer, just because you manged to get by well. Either way, within a class a white man will still have better chances for influence and freedom than a black trans woman. So gender and "race" are not obsolete classifications. However, I think any sense of identity is the cognitive fallout of experiencing lack of self-efficacy, chronically. Seeing the increase in white men building an identity around being "white" and male, too, indicates a wide decrease in class mobility. Pitching those identities against each other is indeed class warfare. Based Tucker Carlson: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/fwnwft/peak_auth_unity_achieved/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/fwnw...

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

Most of the social justice thrust that comes into the mainstream is just upper-class people trying to minimize analysis of themselves and construct an elaborate belief system to cast themselves as moral actors.

cambalache 6y ago

This is not by chance, this was by design. Hyperfocusing on race, sexual orientation and gender helps to significantly downplay the class, economic and geographical differences. So in this world Taylor Swift, Colin Kaepernick,Tim Cook and Caytlin Jenner are helpless victims of the system while a poor white unemployed Oklahoman or a Bulgarian truck driver are little better that vermins because they are at the helm of an hypothetical totem pole. supposedly calling all the shots.