4 ms·

> in practice, a significant proportion of their EU staff will already be unionised Citation needed. Unions are something that's actively discouraged within US

> in practice, a significant proportion of their EU staff will already be unionised Citation needed. Unions are something that's actively discouraged within US multinationals' EU offices as well, so I wouldn't be so sure the overall picture is rosier in Europe than it is in the US.

soco 6y ago
There's no umbrella answer but overall it is rosier in every aspect. For example, EU has a mandatory thing called "employee representatives" (although created at employees' initiative, it cannot be blocked) and some EU countries mandate also union members into those. Obviously these constructs will create a lot of friction with US management style, but I'd say that's the very reason they were created.
- lucideer 6y ago
  > overall it is rosier in every aspect It's definitely rosier in most aspects insofar as protection of employee rights is much better at a legislative / public level in Europe, and therefore there's more supports available. These may however often be your company's HR dept. ticking boxes (HR departments of course by and large existing to protect the company from potential employee complaints first and foremost, rather than to protect employees). In the case of a US-based office where such state-mandated supports are absent, and the employees have put together a body to enable collective bargaining, the supports—while less official and state-supported—may be of more immediate material benefit as they practically address current grievances. > some EU countries mandate also union members into those Do you have a reference for this? I'm curious to know which do and which don't (it's certainly not anything that's been brought in at a Directive level).
  - soco 6y ago
    In Spain is mandated while in Germany, the Netherlands or UK it's just customary, and for the rest it might be anything in between. Here's more about it, see respective "workplace representation" sections: https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Rela...
    - guerrilla 6y ago
      I just read that they were mandated in Germany at Amazon's FCs. Is that not true? (Sorry, original article in printed Swedish.)
      - soco 6y ago
        If yes then not by law but by said company-wide agreement.
joshuamorton 6y ago
This gets tricky because there are Unions[0] and works councils in the EU, and they're different. Works councils[1] are usually per company, while unions are not. Neither maps precisely onto the conventional American definition of a "Union"[*], nor onto the AWU, which is a members-only union. I'm not sure how many Google employees in europe are Unionized, but I know works councils exist in multiple nations. [*]: My understanding is that a works council is government mandated, and a small group of employees can set one up, they have some formal negotiating power like a NLRA union, but don't represent all employees, and have a limited set of things they can negotiate about (for example they can deal with work conditions, but I don't think they can negotiate pay or strike). EU trade unions are big national organizations, one per industry that do lobbying and counter corporations. Conventional US NLRB unions have a monopoly on negotiations with the company, but require 50%+ membership. Members only unions have no formal legal power beyond non-retaliation, but can still negotiate with a company (about anything). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_Europe [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council

soco 6y ago

There's no umbrella answer but overall it is rosier in every aspect. For example, EU has a mandatory thing called "employee representatives" (although created at employees' initiative, it cannot be blocked) and some EU countries mandate also union members into those. Obviously these constructs will create a lot of friction with US management style, but I'd say that's the very reason they were created.

lucideer 6y ago
> overall it is rosier in every aspect It's definitely rosier in most aspects insofar as protection of employee rights is much better at a legislative / public level in Europe, and therefore there's more supports available. These may however often be your company's HR dept. ticking boxes (HR departments of course by and large existing to protect the company from potential employee complaints first and foremost, rather than to protect employees). In the case of a US-based office where such state-mandated supports are absent, and the employees have put together a body to enable collective bargaining, the supports—while less official and state-supported—may be of more immediate material benefit as they practically address current grievances. > some EU countries mandate also union members into those Do you have a reference for this? I'm curious to know which do and which don't (it's certainly not anything that's been brought in at a Directive level).
- soco 6y ago
  In Spain is mandated while in Germany, the Netherlands or UK it's just customary, and for the rest it might be anything in between. Here's more about it, see respective "workplace representation" sections: https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Rela...
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    I just read that they were mandated in Germany at Amazon's FCs. Is that not true? (Sorry, original article in printed Swedish.)
    - soco 6y ago
      If yes then not by law but by said company-wide agreement.

joshuamorton 6y ago

This gets tricky because there are Unions[0] and works councils in the EU, and they're different. Works councils[1] are usually per company, while unions are not. Neither maps precisely onto the conventional American definition of a "Union"[*], nor onto the AWU, which is a members-only union. I'm not sure how many Google employees in europe are Unionized, but I know works councils exist in multiple nations. [*]: My understanding is that a works council is government mandated, and a small group of employees can set one up, they have some formal negotiating power like a NLRA union, but don't represent all employees, and have a limited set of things they can negotiate about (for example they can deal with work conditions, but I don't think they can negotiate pay or strike). EU trade unions are big national organizations, one per industry that do lobbying and counter corporations. Conventional US NLRB unions have a monopoly on negotiations with the company, but require 50%+ membership. Members only unions have no formal legal power beyond non-retaliation, but can still negotiate with a company (about anything). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_Europe [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council