4 ms·

>that EUs best and brightest minds, educated with EU money are helping strengthen the Chinese and US tech titans It goes farther than that. Universities in man

>that EUs best and brightest minds, educated with EU money are helping strengthen the Chinese and US tech titans It goes farther than that. Universities in many EU countries are essentially free, even for foreign students. About 30% of students at my university in Berlin are foreign, coming from mostly Asian, Arabian, and American countries. And you know what? I wouldn't change a thing about it. This "us vs. them", or more accurately "US vs. them" attitude needs to stop.

iorrus 6y ago
Will be very interesting to see how these two different ideologies play out over the coming years. According to the article Huawei favours ethnic Chinese over Europeans especially at management level and I’ve heard the same about TikTok so we have a great opportunity to watch how these competing visions play out
trinix912 6y ago
> even for foreign students This is not completely true, it only applies to students from other EU/EEA countries. There are some exceptions for a few other european countries but apart from those, international students still have to pay the tuition.
- trumpeta 6y ago
  correct, but the tuition is peanuts compared to US or in some cases places like India.
- chmod775 6y ago
  > This is not completely true, it only applies to students from other EU/EEA countries. This is incorrect (for Germany) unless you want to go to a university in Baden-Württemberg (one of the 16 states of Germany), which introduced tuition for international students in 2017. Everywhere else you will pay virtually the same fees[1] as a German national (<1k euro/year), except that you may be required to pay into a 'security fund' for international students if you have the means, which helps less-well-off international students or those who have fallen on hard times to pay those same fees. Take the TU Berlin as an example: https://www.tu.berlin/en/studying/studienorganisation/finanzierung/ https://www.tu.berlin/en/studying/studienorganisation/finanz... [1] Note that these fees are not tuition. About half of them pays for a greatly discounted public transport ticket, the other half for an assortment of smaller things.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    In France they shot themselves in the foot because of, as often, grand principles: The government wanted to make foreign students (outside of EEA) in universities pay significant tuition fees but that was shot down as unconstitutional because the constitution states that public education has to be free for everyone and anyone...
  - vinay427 6y ago
    They did say there are a few exceptions. Most every country I looked at with the exception of (most of) Germany and one or two others had substantial tuition fees for non-EU/EEA/CH students that were on the order of my in-state university tuition in the US.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Where in my original comment did you read that I have something against foreign students in europe?
hiram112 6y ago
From the article: >> One ex-employee says there is effectively a glass ceiling for European workers. > About 30% of students at my university in Berlin are foreign, coming from mostly Asian, Arabian, and American countries... This "us vs. them", or more accurately "US vs. them" attitude needs to stop. Except they're not going to change. You (i.e. us) are just going to lose. How many European students are enrolled in elite institutions in China, India, Middle East, etc, at the host country's expense, who will then take coveted positions at foreign firms in those countries? 30%, lol? In the US, they created this backdoor "Opt" work visa (which they're desperately trying to expand) that allows hundreds of thousands of foreign students to stay in the US once studies are finished and compete for jobs. Oh, and they don't pay various retirement taxes, so companies get an immediate 15% incentive to hire them over American students. Only white Europeans and Americans are told they must bend over backwards to allow other cultures and ethnicities to advance while the rest of the world takes advantage of our self-inflicted stupidity and laughs at us while they surge past us. You've been indoctrinated by various interest groups, none of whom actually have your interests or those of your country in mind.
- chmod775 6y ago
  > You (i.e. us) are just going to lose. How? What is "their" end-game? At worst "they" cost us like 3,000 euro/semester in tuition, which is virtually nothing. At best the people that came here stay, adding skilled labor to our workforce. At the very least Germany gets a solid boost to foreign relations, established a foundation for international corporation in research, and educated a generation of people who have seen the other side of the pond, while remaining less ignorant ourselves. There's a reason Germany is diplomatically one of the best connected countries. You can hardly buy a measly frigate for your navy for what this costs us, and I know which is more useful for enacting meaningful change. Also, personally, I value the experience of interacting with students from other nationalities a lot. > In the US [...] And? This is not the US. > You've been indoctrinated Yeah, right.
- tchalla 6y ago
  > Only white Europeans and Americans are told they must bend over backwards to allow other cultures and ethnicities to advance while the rest of the world takes advantage of our self-inflicted stupidity and laughs at us while they surge past us. I can understand your argument if you say education in Europe should be paid for some people as residents of the country pay taxes. You don't have to be vitriolic to make that point.

iorrus 6y ago

Will be very interesting to see how these two different ideologies play out over the coming years. According to the article Huawei favours ethnic Chinese over Europeans especially at management level and I’ve heard the same about TikTok so we have a great opportunity to watch how these competing visions play out

trinix912 6y ago

> even for foreign students This is not completely true, it only applies to students from other EU/EEA countries. There are some exceptions for a few other european countries but apart from those, international students still have to pay the tuition.

trumpeta 6y ago
correct, but the tuition is peanuts compared to US or in some cases places like India.
chmod775 6y ago
> This is not completely true, it only applies to students from other EU/EEA countries. This is incorrect (for Germany) unless you want to go to a university in Baden-Württemberg (one of the 16 states of Germany), which introduced tuition for international students in 2017. Everywhere else you will pay virtually the same fees[1] as a German national (<1k euro/year), except that you may be required to pay into a 'security fund' for international students if you have the means, which helps less-well-off international students or those who have fallen on hard times to pay those same fees. Take the TU Berlin as an example: https://www.tu.berlin/en/studying/studienorganisation/finanzierung/ https://www.tu.berlin/en/studying/studienorganisation/finanz... [1] Note that these fees are not tuition. About half of them pays for a greatly discounted public transport ticket, the other half for an assortment of smaller things.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  In France they shot themselves in the foot because of, as often, grand principles: The government wanted to make foreign students (outside of EEA) in universities pay significant tuition fees but that was shot down as unconstitutional because the constitution states that public education has to be free for everyone and anyone...
- vinay427 6y ago
  They did say there are a few exceptions. Most every country I looked at with the exception of (most of) Germany and one or two others had substantial tuition fees for non-EU/EEA/CH students that were on the order of my in-state university tuition in the US.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

Where in my original comment did you read that I have something against foreign students in europe?

hiram112 6y ago

From the article: >> One ex-employee says there is effectively a glass ceiling for European workers. > About 30% of students at my university in Berlin are foreign, coming from mostly Asian, Arabian, and American countries... This "us vs. them", or more accurately "US vs. them" attitude needs to stop. Except they're not going to change. You (i.e. us) are just going to lose. How many European students are enrolled in elite institutions in China, India, Middle East, etc, at the host country's expense, who will then take coveted positions at foreign firms in those countries? 30%, lol? In the US, they created this backdoor "Opt" work visa (which they're desperately trying to expand) that allows hundreds of thousands of foreign students to stay in the US once studies are finished and compete for jobs. Oh, and they don't pay various retirement taxes, so companies get an immediate 15% incentive to hire them over American students. Only white Europeans and Americans are told they must bend over backwards to allow other cultures and ethnicities to advance while the rest of the world takes advantage of our self-inflicted stupidity and laughs at us while they surge past us. You've been indoctrinated by various interest groups, none of whom actually have your interests or those of your country in mind.

chmod775 6y ago
> You (i.e. us) are just going to lose. How? What is "their" end-game? At worst "they" cost us like 3,000 euro/semester in tuition, which is virtually nothing. At best the people that came here stay, adding skilled labor to our workforce. At the very least Germany gets a solid boost to foreign relations, established a foundation for international corporation in research, and educated a generation of people who have seen the other side of the pond, while remaining less ignorant ourselves. There's a reason Germany is diplomatically one of the best connected countries. You can hardly buy a measly frigate for your navy for what this costs us, and I know which is more useful for enacting meaningful change. Also, personally, I value the experience of interacting with students from other nationalities a lot. > In the US [...] And? This is not the US. > You've been indoctrinated Yeah, right.
tchalla 6y ago
> Only white Europeans and Americans are told they must bend over backwards to allow other cultures and ethnicities to advance while the rest of the world takes advantage of our self-inflicted stupidity and laughs at us while they surge past us. I can understand your argument if you say education in Europe should be paid for some people as residents of the country pay taxes. You don't have to be vitriolic to make that point.