3 ms·

Really? I have a hard time coming up with important examples. Germany 1870-1932 had many parties with substantial representation, but how civil was it, particul

by cafard 6y ago

Really? I have a hard time coming up with important examples. Germany 1870-1932 had many parties with substantial representation, but how civil was it, particularly after 1918? Mark Twain's essay "Stirring Times in Austria" gives a picture of a multi-party parliament in a nervous breakdown. George Dangerfield's The Strange Death of Liberal England shows the UK ca. 1910 with two large parties, Liberal and Conservative, and two unignorable smaller ones, Labor and the Irish caucus; it was not pretty. At this point, does any major European country have more than two viable parties or coalitions? Will the German Greens ever get a Cabinet seat outside a coalition with the Social Democrats? Will the UK Liberal Democrats ever get a Cabinet seat except in coalition?

watwut 6y ago
Germany 1870 was not democracy. Germany was democracy in between 1918-1932 and it was forced to become one by their own enemies. The incivility after 1918 was result of loosing war, result of anti-monarchy revolution, result of communist attempt for revolution and so on. It also had to do with rejection of democracy on principle. It had less to do with multiple parties existing or lack of two party system.
yatac42 6y ago
> At this point, does any major European country have more than two viable parties or coalitions? If we look at the coalitions that have happened at the national level in this century, we have: * Social Democrats + Greens * Conservatives + Social Democrats (like, a lot) * Conservatives + Liberals So that's three different coalitions that have actually happened in the last 20 years. Admittedly three is not a lot more than two, but it is more (and we're talking about a time frame that only includes 5 national elections and only about actual coalitions, not potentially viable ones). And if you look at state governments as well, there are actually a lot more combinations that seem to work. > Will the German Greens ever get a Cabinet seat outside a coalition with the Social Democrats? Almost certainly. At the state level they already have. In one case they're even the majority with the conservatives being the minority partner in the coalition. At the national level they almost did in 2017. Negotiations between the conservatives, the greens and the liberals failed because the liberals backed out and the greens + conservatives didn't have a majority on their own - they would have been ready to go otherwise. It is entirely possible, even likely, that we will see a conservative-green coalition after this year's elections.

by cafard 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

Germany 1870 was not democracy. Germany was democracy in between 1918-1932 and it was forced to become one by their own enemies. The incivility after 1918 was result of loosing war, result of anti-monarchy revolution, result of communist attempt for revolution and so on. It also had to do with rejection of democracy on principle. It had less to do with multiple parties existing or lack of two party system.

yatac42 6y ago

> At this point, does any major European country have more than two viable parties or coalitions? If we look at the coalitions that have happened at the national level in this century, we have: * Social Democrats + Greens * Conservatives + Social Democrats (like, a lot) * Conservatives + Liberals So that's three different coalitions that have actually happened in the last 20 years. Admittedly three is not a lot more than two, but it is more (and we're talking about a time frame that only includes 5 national elections and only about actual coalitions, not potentially viable ones). And if you look at state governments as well, there are actually a lot more combinations that seem to work. > Will the German Greens ever get a Cabinet seat outside a coalition with the Social Democrats? Almost certainly. At the state level they already have. In one case they're even the majority with the conservatives being the minority partner in the coalition. At the national level they almost did in 2017. Negotiations between the conservatives, the greens and the liberals failed because the liberals backed out and the greens + conservatives didn't have a majority on their own - they would have been ready to go otherwise. It is entirely possible, even likely, that we will see a conservative-green coalition after this year's elections.