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Yes, because the only use for Flash is games. /sarcasm No, I use Flash on my Android for those idiotic sites that use it as an integral part of the site. iPad

Yes, because the only use for Flash is games. /sarcasm No, I use Flash on my Android for those idiotic sites that use it as an integral part of the site. iPads can't go to those sites, but I can. I agree that it's a dog and far too slow... But I only use it when I have to.

tincansandtwine 15y ago
Not to mention that you don't have to install it if you don't want it. I like having the option there for me to make, not have someone there to make it for me.
SwellJoe 15y ago
In the past month or so, I've had friends with iPhones ask me several times to look something up because the website they were checking (restaurant sitesin a couple of case, and a local band site in another) used a Flash menu or splash screen. It's obviously idiotic for the website designer to do such a thing, but it's extremely common. I gloat a little every time an iPhone user has to ask me to do something on my Android phone.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  I've honestly never thought about asking somebody else in that situation. If a company doesn't want to market to me (which is what their website is doing), that's fine, but I likely won't patronize them. Too many options are available for me as a consumer to waste time working around a business' short-comings.
  - SwellJoe 15y ago
    It was where the group had decided they wanted to go, and nobody knew how late they were open. Calling is another option and getting the phone number of a place is usually easy, even if their own website doesn't work. But, when you're sitting around in a noisy bar the web browser is a better choice. If you rule out all restaurants that use Flash on their website, you're going to rule out a huge number of restaurants. For whatever reason, locally owned restaurants seem to use Flash something like 80% of the time (and the usually also use PDF for their menus, multiplying their level of fail).
    - nasmorn 15y ago
      I recently travelled to Argentina and there it is true for hotels too.
    - CamperBob 15y ago
      1) There's nothing wrong with .pdf for restaurant menus. .PDF works fine on all platforms worth mentioning, and the files don't even have to be all that large if encoded properly. 2) Wait a year and I'll bet 90% of those restaurants will no longer require Flash. As someone said above, they'd have to be idiots, and they're not, for the most part. Complete nonissue, IMHO.
- atacrawl 15y ago
  I gloat a little every time an iPhone user has to ask me to do something on my Android phone. I understand that position, but to me, it isn't much different than having to bust out IE7 at work to run some stupid legacy bullshit from HR because it won't run in anything good. ;) Any business (especially one like a restaurant or a night club, where mobile users are particularly relevant) that relies on Flash in this tech climate is run by morons.
- andybak 15y ago
  The greatest gift Steve Jobs has given web developers is a cast-iron reason to give clients why doing their navigation in Flash is a bad idea. It's saved me hours over trying to explain the proper reasons.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Also, many many many billable hours converting trivial flash sites to javascript/svg/css3. Not exactly mindblowing stuff but it allowed me to pay my rent in a nigh-on automated fashion for a while straight out of uni. Made the adjustment from student life into the workforce a little less abrupt. Thanks Steve!
  - SwellJoe 15y ago
    You believe restaurant owners are calling up web developers, and saying, "Hey, we need a new website. Make it with Flash."? And that the web developers are trying to convince them otherwise? No. The responsible party for the abomination that is Flash websites lies mostly with web developers. I've even met a few of them over the years. They use Flash because it is easy/cheap/fast to produce flashy (pun incidental) websites. Some of them also like it because it means the client has to call them for updates to the website, even trivial ones. Restaurant owners are victims of Flash websites, just like end users are. They just don't know enough to know it. I hate Flash as much as anyone, and I'm glad Jobs refused to put it in the iPhone, whatever his reasons, because it means Flash is losing its stranglehold on some kinds of site faster than it otherwise would have. But, in the meantime, my phone can visit those sites, while iPhones can't.
    - andybak 15y ago
      In my experience no. Clients know what Flash is and they will specifically ask around for a 'web designer' who 'does Flash'. Heck. I've even got a client who tells me to put some jQuery on the site to jazz it up a bit! He didn't seem too impressed when I billed him for optimizing my array access code using jQuery.each()...

tincansandtwine 15y ago

Not to mention that you don't have to install it if you don't want it. I like having the option there for me to make, not have someone there to make it for me.

SwellJoe 15y ago

In the past month or so, I've had friends with iPhones ask me several times to look something up because the website they were checking (restaurant sitesin a couple of case, and a local band site in another) used a Flash menu or splash screen. It's obviously idiotic for the website designer to do such a thing, but it's extremely common. I gloat a little every time an iPhone user has to ask me to do something on my Android phone.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
I've honestly never thought about asking somebody else in that situation. If a company doesn't want to market to me (which is what their website is doing), that's fine, but I likely won't patronize them. Too many options are available for me as a consumer to waste time working around a business' short-comings.
- SwellJoe 15y ago
  It was where the group had decided they wanted to go, and nobody knew how late they were open. Calling is another option and getting the phone number of a place is usually easy, even if their own website doesn't work. But, when you're sitting around in a noisy bar the web browser is a better choice. If you rule out all restaurants that use Flash on their website, you're going to rule out a huge number of restaurants. For whatever reason, locally owned restaurants seem to use Flash something like 80% of the time (and the usually also use PDF for their menus, multiplying their level of fail).
  - nasmorn 15y ago
    I recently travelled to Argentina and there it is true for hotels too.
  - CamperBob 15y ago
    1) There's nothing wrong with .pdf for restaurant menus. .PDF works fine on all platforms worth mentioning, and the files don't even have to be all that large if encoded properly. 2) Wait a year and I'll bet 90% of those restaurants will no longer require Flash. As someone said above, they'd have to be idiots, and they're not, for the most part. Complete nonissue, IMHO.
atacrawl 15y ago
I gloat a little every time an iPhone user has to ask me to do something on my Android phone. I understand that position, but to me, it isn't much different than having to bust out IE7 at work to run some stupid legacy bullshit from HR because it won't run in anything good. ;) Any business (especially one like a restaurant or a night club, where mobile users are particularly relevant) that relies on Flash in this tech climate is run by morons.
andybak 15y ago
The greatest gift Steve Jobs has given web developers is a cast-iron reason to give clients why doing their navigation in Flash is a bad idea. It's saved me hours over trying to explain the proper reasons.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Also, many many many billable hours converting trivial flash sites to javascript/svg/css3. Not exactly mindblowing stuff but it allowed me to pay my rent in a nigh-on automated fashion for a while straight out of uni. Made the adjustment from student life into the workforce a little less abrupt. Thanks Steve!
- SwellJoe 15y ago
  You believe restaurant owners are calling up web developers, and saying, "Hey, we need a new website. Make it with Flash."? And that the web developers are trying to convince them otherwise? No. The responsible party for the abomination that is Flash websites lies mostly with web developers. I've even met a few of them over the years. They use Flash because it is easy/cheap/fast to produce flashy (pun incidental) websites. Some of them also like it because it means the client has to call them for updates to the website, even trivial ones. Restaurant owners are victims of Flash websites, just like end users are. They just don't know enough to know it. I hate Flash as much as anyone, and I'm glad Jobs refused to put it in the iPhone, whatever his reasons, because it means Flash is losing its stranglehold on some kinds of site faster than it otherwise would have. But, in the meantime, my phone can visit those sites, while iPhones can't.
  - andybak 15y ago
    In my experience no. Clients know what Flash is and they will specifically ask around for a 'web designer' who 'does Flash'. Heck. I've even got a client who tells me to put some jQuery on the site to jazz it up a bit! He didn't seem too impressed when I billed him for optimizing my array access code using jQuery.each()...