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Sadly, I suspect this is not an isolated phenomenon. I’ve increasingly encountered anecdotes of political division souring personal relationships. I wonder if t

Sadly, I suspect this is not an isolated phenomenon. I’ve increasingly encountered anecdotes of political division souring personal relationships. I wonder if there are systematic surveys or studies of whether this perceived trend is real.

Dig1t 6y ago
An interesting corollary of this, I think, is that it creates bubbles of people who all think the same and agree with each other. Since it causes many people to cut people with whom they disagree with out of their life. These people see the people outside their bubble (their neighbors, friends and family) as “other”. It’s so divisive, it’s causing everyone to hate each other as nobody sees common cause with their own countrymen. It’s very sad, I hope we figure it out.
- concordDance 6y ago
  They also end up with a very different view on reality due to being exposed to different facts and the same facts with different framing. Filter bubbles be strong.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    In the current climate, there is clearly one portion of the population rejecting reality, even though there’s plenty of available information. It has nothing to do with bubbles, it’s people actively deciding to delude themselves.
    - Veen 6y ago
      > there is clearly one portion of the population rejecting reality, even though there’s plenty of available information That's exactly what the world looks like to a person living in a filter bubble.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I know. The useful distinction for a filter bubble would be for when a person is exposed only to a small set of ideas, such as “big government, subsidized everything” is the best way, or “small government, privatized everything” is the best way”. Or “so and so method of education is the best way”, things that don’t have relatively definitive answers, based on reasonable logic and standards of evidence. Using filter bubbles to talk about people that think the earth is 6,000 years old, it’s flat, the US government is run by a cabal pedophiles, vaccines are harmful, the US election results are false, etc is not a fruitful endeavor.
        throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        If you only encounter "other" ideas in a context where they are derided, mocked and otherwise not taken seriously that's still a pretty damn airtight filter bubble.
        watwut 6y ago
        There should be however space for saying that a group of people or ideology is simply wrong on some points. We should not be force to pretend that all ideologies, values systems and theories are equal or right. Or honest.
        Dig1t 6y ago
        Agreed you shouldn’t have to agree with anyone you don’t actually agree with, but also tolerance (for _all_ people) is important. We should make an honest attempt to understand WHY these people feel the way they do, and try to address the underlying concerns and fears that motivate them. And if it’s not possible to do that, at least talking about them like they’re not all patently evil would be helpful in building better relationships with our neighbors.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        The information to which I am referring is easily accessible in encyclopedias, university physics departments, CDC/FDA website, wikipedia, state government websites, etc. The people deluding themselves are choosing to discredit those sources in favor of their favorite celebrity or social group. Or they're pretending for other nefarious reasons. Either way, referring to this as a filter bubble is inaccurate in my opinion. These people were educated in the US, know English, know how to use the internet, grew up in a diverse country, some are accomplished business people, years long members of the military with lots of international travel. Few people around the world have as much opportunity to be out of their "filter bubble".
    - concordDance 6y ago
      Just one portion? Many portions I expect. And which portion depends on which bits of reality you look at it. If you think the current canon set of facts of the dominant ideology is 100% correct now when it wasn't any time in the past 2000 years, well... it's just not very likely.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Just because we don't have perfect knowledge at any one point in time doesn't mean every single idea throughout history is valid. Overtime, discoveries are made, models are refined, textbooks are updated, and as the evidence presents itself, you keep marching forward with the best available information you have.
    - tomp 6y ago
      You mean the side that claims US elections are 100% safe? I think that Trump definitively lost, but from the point of view of a European (from a former socialist country no less!) the idea that you can have "secure" voting without seeing a person and checking their ID card is ... laughable to say the least. Yet claiming that as fact is in line with the current propaganda, so ...

Dig1t 6y ago

An interesting corollary of this, I think, is that it creates bubbles of people who all think the same and agree with each other. Since it causes many people to cut people with whom they disagree with out of their life. These people see the people outside their bubble (their neighbors, friends and family) as “other”. It’s so divisive, it’s causing everyone to hate each other as nobody sees common cause with their own countrymen. It’s very sad, I hope we figure it out.

concordDance 6y ago
They also end up with a very different view on reality due to being exposed to different facts and the same facts with different framing. Filter bubbles be strong.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  In the current climate, there is clearly one portion of the population rejecting reality, even though there’s plenty of available information. It has nothing to do with bubbles, it’s people actively deciding to delude themselves.
  - Veen 6y ago
    > there is clearly one portion of the population rejecting reality, even though there’s plenty of available information That's exactly what the world looks like to a person living in a filter bubble.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I know. The useful distinction for a filter bubble would be for when a person is exposed only to a small set of ideas, such as “big government, subsidized everything” is the best way, or “small government, privatized everything” is the best way”. Or “so and so method of education is the best way”, things that don’t have relatively definitive answers, based on reasonable logic and standards of evidence. Using filter bubbles to talk about people that think the earth is 6,000 years old, it’s flat, the US government is run by a cabal pedophiles, vaccines are harmful, the US election results are false, etc is not a fruitful endeavor.
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        If you only encounter "other" ideas in a context where they are derided, mocked and otherwise not taken seriously that's still a pretty damn airtight filter bubble.
        watwut 6y ago
        There should be however space for saying that a group of people or ideology is simply wrong on some points. We should not be force to pretend that all ideologies, values systems and theories are equal or right. Or honest.
        Dig1t 6y ago
        Agreed you shouldn’t have to agree with anyone you don’t actually agree with, but also tolerance (for _all_ people) is important. We should make an honest attempt to understand WHY these people feel the way they do, and try to address the underlying concerns and fears that motivate them. And if it’s not possible to do that, at least talking about them like they’re not all patently evil would be helpful in building better relationships with our neighbors.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        The information to which I am referring is easily accessible in encyclopedias, university physics departments, CDC/FDA website, wikipedia, state government websites, etc. The people deluding themselves are choosing to discredit those sources in favor of their favorite celebrity or social group. Or they're pretending for other nefarious reasons. Either way, referring to this as a filter bubble is inaccurate in my opinion. These people were educated in the US, know English, know how to use the internet, grew up in a diverse country, some are accomplished business people, years long members of the military with lots of international travel. Few people around the world have as much opportunity to be out of their "filter bubble".
  - concordDance 6y ago
    Just one portion? Many portions I expect. And which portion depends on which bits of reality you look at it. If you think the current canon set of facts of the dominant ideology is 100% correct now when it wasn't any time in the past 2000 years, well... it's just not very likely.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Just because we don't have perfect knowledge at any one point in time doesn't mean every single idea throughout history is valid. Overtime, discoveries are made, models are refined, textbooks are updated, and as the evidence presents itself, you keep marching forward with the best available information you have.
  - tomp 6y ago
    You mean the side that claims US elections are 100% safe? I think that Trump definitively lost, but from the point of view of a European (from a former socialist country no less!) the idea that you can have "secure" voting without seeing a person and checking their ID card is ... laughable to say the least. Yet claiming that as fact is in line with the current propaganda, so ...