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Signal is a treasure that shows us that more things than just Wikipedia can occupy the holy trio of Good, Popular, and Free, all at the same time (I would inclu

by ve55 6y ago

Signal is a treasure that shows us that more things than just Wikipedia can occupy the holy trio of Good, Popular, and Free, all at the same time (I would include having a user-aligned profit model such as donations instead of surveillance under Free/Good). I hope that with all of these new users they are free to continue to provide their service for free, and even more so, that they may inspire us to build a better future with similar apps in other domains. They may definitely have some growing pains and tough moments ahead of them, but I'm ecstatic to see e2e getting so popular and users finally seeing the value in these kinds of things (after, for what seemed like a decade, getting anyone to care seemed impossible).

tenpies 6y ago
> holy trio of Good, Popular, and Free Wait do we consider Wikipedia to be "Good" now? Just the banning of Fram in 2019[1] should be an indicator that the people steering the ship are probably not good. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_t...
- erikbye 6y ago
  He was uncivil toward other editors. https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/wikipedia-fram-banning-editor-controversy.html https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/wikipedia-fram-banning-...
schoolornot 6y ago
I'm still a bit concerned about the unique structuring of the Signal Foundation and the 100 million dollar loan it got from Brian Acton. Is there an expectation that the organization will be disbanded by the time the loan comes due in 2068? Brian will be 96 years old.
- hcurtiss 6y ago
  I’m betting it was styled as a loan for tax purposes.
  - cheald 6y ago
    How would that work? Signal is a 501c3.
    - matheist 6y ago
      Maybe so that the charitable deduction could be split up among multiple years (forgive $X amount annually) instead of one enormous deduction taken all at once which would be ineffective? (I don't actually know if this would work, just a guess.)
Vinnl 6y ago
Not only that, but it shows us that projects matching that holy trio can still gain a footing today, rather than the beginning of the web being the only period in which such projects could have come into existence.
grumbel 6y ago
> Good, Popular, and Free The lack of federation, crippled data export and requirement for a phone number puts it into the "no good" category for me. Doesn't matter how much Open Source they throw around, what matters is how much effort it will be to stop using your software. Signal so far, looks to run with the same lock-in tactics as everybody else and that in turn gives them the power to switch over from nice to naughty mode whenever they want.
dionian 6y ago
Wikipedia was definitely like this in its early days but surprised how many people think it’s a nonpartisan thing anymore. Maybe for some topics it can be still
- ve55 6y ago
  It isn't as much that Wikipedia is perfect, but rather than I could imagine 100 ways in which it could be so much worse. It is not perfectly nonpartisan, but compare it to the websites that are similar in popularity and you'll find there's no contest.
  - dionian 6y ago
    I'm very cynical, much more so than you, however you do make a good point. I like that at least they have a little bit of transparency in the talk pages, even if im often not always happy with the consensus
    - rhizome 6y ago
      Is it really cynicism more than a nirvana fallacy?
- drukenemo 6y ago
  That’s my grievance with Wikipedia too.

by ve55 6y ago

tenpies 6y ago

> holy trio of Good, Popular, and Free Wait do we consider Wikipedia to be "Good" now? Just the banning of Fram in 2019[1] should be an indicator that the people steering the ship are probably not good. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_t...

erikbye 6y ago
He was uncivil toward other editors. https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/wikipedia-fram-banning-editor-controversy.html https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/wikipedia-fram-banning-...

schoolornot 6y ago

I'm still a bit concerned about the unique structuring of the Signal Foundation and the 100 million dollar loan it got from Brian Acton. Is there an expectation that the organization will be disbanded by the time the loan comes due in 2068? Brian will be 96 years old.

hcurtiss 6y ago
I’m betting it was styled as a loan for tax purposes.
- cheald 6y ago
  How would that work? Signal is a 501c3.
  - matheist 6y ago
    Maybe so that the charitable deduction could be split up among multiple years (forgive $X amount annually) instead of one enormous deduction taken all at once which would be ineffective? (I don't actually know if this would work, just a guess.)

Vinnl 6y ago

Not only that, but it shows us that projects matching that holy trio can still gain a footing today, rather than the beginning of the web being the only period in which such projects could have come into existence.

grumbel 6y ago

> Good, Popular, and Free The lack of federation, crippled data export and requirement for a phone number puts it into the "no good" category for me. Doesn't matter how much Open Source they throw around, what matters is how much effort it will be to stop using your software. Signal so far, looks to run with the same lock-in tactics as everybody else and that in turn gives them the power to switch over from nice to naughty mode whenever they want.

dionian 6y ago

Wikipedia was definitely like this in its early days but surprised how many people think it’s a nonpartisan thing anymore. Maybe for some topics it can be still

ve55 6y ago
It isn't as much that Wikipedia is perfect, but rather than I could imagine 100 ways in which it could be so much worse. It is not perfectly nonpartisan, but compare it to the websites that are similar in popularity and you'll find there's no contest.
- dionian 6y ago
  I'm very cynical, much more so than you, however you do make a good point. I like that at least they have a little bit of transparency in the talk pages, even if im often not always happy with the consensus
  - rhizome 6y ago
    Is it really cynicism more than a nirvana fallacy?
drukenemo 6y ago
That’s my grievance with Wikipedia too.