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10 years ago, social media platforms hadn't gamed their algorithms to oblivion. Platforms are the problem, this is the formula that maximizes engagement that be

10 years ago, social media platforms hadn't gamed their algorithms to oblivion. Platforms are the problem, this is the formula that maximizes engagement that benefits them and ad revenue. The real answer is probably just to ditch social media. I can't see any for-profit social media product ever not turning into a toxic cesspool.

skinkestek 6y ago
Many of post as much as before, you just don't see it because we migrated to places were we feel safe. (And the use of "feel" is very intentional, I'm fully aware that Telegram groups and ordinary chats might be backdoored or whatever ) My journey was something like -Facebook, - private blog with logins so my parents and siblings could read, post and comment - Started using Hangouts(or so I think, there's been so many Google messaging apps) with my wife because it was convenient to not have to dig out the phone everytime we worked at a computer and needed to send som messages. - Started using WhatsApp. Fell in love. "Sold it" to my family and my wife's family. - All our close friends picked it up too at around the same time. - Facebook announced it would buy WhatsApp. I felt uncomfortable, but waited. - Telegram showed up and was better but I didn't want to switch as they were free and WhatsApp was still paid so WhatsApp felt safer. - Facebook made WhatsApp free and took away all guarantees. - I started using Telegram. Soon after everyone around me switched too. I won't say I started the move to WhatsApp and later Telegram among my friends but I have wholeheartedly supported it. (Say what you want about the encryption in early WhatsApp and later in Telegram, but there's more to security than encryption and most of the stuff we post would otherwise have gone on Facebook so it is a huge step forward anyways and it is so liberating to know I can talk to anyone and know that it doesn't automatically get pumped into Facebooks data lake.) Edit, FWIW, two more observations: - Google Hangouts could have been the place we went to instead of WhatsApp, but lacked polish especially on group chats. - Google+ could have been an alternative but didn't feel private enough. - After Google+ I gave up Google.[1] - There's a number of interesting options at any time, but I haven't found what we (my family and close friends) need: hubzilla seems promising but lacks community it seems. Mastodon is public by default so more like Twitter, while we want 1-1 or group messaging. MeWe is focused on being a 1-to-many network, and they lack pseudonym accounts so they still don't come close to Google+. Ideas are welcome. [1]: Maybe I won't work there even if I'm offered a job as it feels like a minefield for anyone with a different background like me and they also haven't managed to get a single service to improve since 10 years ago as far as I remember. Most services are even going backwards it seems, reducing quotas, killing products, even search has been failing badly for years and ad targeting is so bad it would have been funny if it wasn't so insulting. (I always complain about this so I should probably say the last few months I've seen ads from stores I'd actually want to buy from instead of just the "hot singles near you" scam etc.)
deckard1 6y ago
> the formula that maximizes engagement that benefits them and ad revenue The algorithms have only settled down on the extremes which we've already known sell: sex, violence, fear, outrage. Fox News was selling fear and outrage long before Facebook's algorithms discovered that fear and outrage sells. Every grocery store had tabloids right there at the checkout, already optimized for engagement from those with obvious self-control and critical thinking issues. In fact, the grocery store is an excellent example of a place that has been heavily optimized based on human psychology. They want you to buy the cereal and other high margin items. They put the basics on the periphery, etc. Social media is a problem, but I don't think it's the problem. We have deeper issues we need to dig to.

skinkestek 6y ago

Many of post as much as before, you just don't see it because we migrated to places were we feel safe. (And the use of "feel" is very intentional, I'm fully aware that Telegram groups and ordinary chats might be backdoored or whatever ) My journey was something like -Facebook, - private blog with logins so my parents and siblings could read, post and comment - Started using Hangouts(or so I think, there's been so many Google messaging apps) with my wife because it was convenient to not have to dig out the phone everytime we worked at a computer and needed to send som messages. - Started using WhatsApp. Fell in love. "Sold it" to my family and my wife's family. - All our close friends picked it up too at around the same time. - Facebook announced it would buy WhatsApp. I felt uncomfortable, but waited. - Telegram showed up and was better but I didn't want to switch as they were free and WhatsApp was still paid so WhatsApp felt safer. - Facebook made WhatsApp free and took away all guarantees. - I started using Telegram. Soon after everyone around me switched too. I won't say I started the move to WhatsApp and later Telegram among my friends but I have wholeheartedly supported it. (Say what you want about the encryption in early WhatsApp and later in Telegram, but there's more to security than encryption and most of the stuff we post would otherwise have gone on Facebook so it is a huge step forward anyways and it is so liberating to know I can talk to anyone and know that it doesn't automatically get pumped into Facebooks data lake.) Edit, FWIW, two more observations: - Google Hangouts could have been the place we went to instead of WhatsApp, but lacked polish especially on group chats. - Google+ could have been an alternative but didn't feel private enough. - After Google+ I gave up Google.[1] - There's a number of interesting options at any time, but I haven't found what we (my family and close friends) need: hubzilla seems promising but lacks community it seems. Mastodon is public by default so more like Twitter, while we want 1-1 or group messaging. MeWe is focused on being a 1-to-many network, and they lack pseudonym accounts so they still don't come close to Google+. Ideas are welcome. [1]: Maybe I won't work there even if I'm offered a job as it feels like a minefield for anyone with a different background like me and they also haven't managed to get a single service to improve since 10 years ago as far as I remember. Most services are even going backwards it seems, reducing quotas, killing products, even search has been failing badly for years and ad targeting is so bad it would have been funny if it wasn't so insulting. (I always complain about this so I should probably say the last few months I've seen ads from stores I'd actually want to buy from instead of just the "hot singles near you" scam etc.)

deckard1 6y ago

> the formula that maximizes engagement that benefits them and ad revenue The algorithms have only settled down on the extremes which we've already known sell: sex, violence, fear, outrage. Fox News was selling fear and outrage long before Facebook's algorithms discovered that fear and outrage sells. Every grocery store had tabloids right there at the checkout, already optimized for engagement from those with obvious self-control and critical thinking issues. In fact, the grocery store is an excellent example of a place that has been heavily optimized based on human psychology. They want you to buy the cereal and other high margin items. They put the basics on the periphery, etc. Social media is a problem, but I don't think it's the problem. We have deeper issues we need to dig to.