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I worked for the IRS in a country in Europe. When working there in IT, I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation of how many careers we spent, with career being

I worked for the IRS in a country in Europe. When working there in IT, I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation of how many careers we spent, with career being average yearly salary *40yrs. I also thought about how the money for my project came from coercion - the customer had no option to cancel the service we provided them, or to select a provider who gives them a better deal, or to simply manage their welfare and insurance by themselves (the biggest expenses of welfare state). My coworkers would talk about tax payers in a demeaning tone - as if they rightfully owed us something. After a few months if thinking I followed the gut feeling and quit. I encourage anyone working for their “public sector” and especially tax departments to think about the morality of your work, and remember that life is like 80 years if you’re lucky, so spend it on productive and useful things - not the kind of parasitic work that happens at IRSs around the world

drummer 6y ago
Congrats man. I similarly decided never to work for any government or connected organization ever again when I realized all governments are criminal orgs comparable to the mafia, living off of theft and extortion, basically slavery ('taxation').
- jeofken 6y ago
  Thanks. While I had an uneasy feeling at the time, it was people on the internet who put words on what I did wrong, and I am grateful to them. These people are sadly getting banned and downvoted by the majority on pretty much every platform. In those moments I remember Socrates, who was sentenced to death for his heresy - but now lives forever as the greatest philosopher of all times.
  - drummer 6y ago
    Yep it is not easy to admit you were wrong and to have to make such drastic changes in your life. Especially not in the current climate. I had to do the same thing, and it is difficult, but also rewarding in a spiritual sense. Much respect to you, and good luck.
afavour 6y ago
> My coworkers would talk about tax payers in a demeaning tone - as if they rightfully owed us something. But... they do? Tax payers use public services every day. I get what you’re saying but if someone opted to not pay taxes surely it wouldn’t be fair for them to drive on public roads, or use public transit? Or drink water provided by city-maintained pipes? How on earth would you enforce that? If someone wished to live a life where they used absolutely zero tax payer funded things how would they even start? > I encourage anyone working for their “public sector” and especially tax departments to think about the morality of your work Many years ago I worked for a local government authority. It’s honestly some of the most rewarding work I’ve done before or since. I created pages and backend tools for people to look up trash collection, how to vote, what’s going on at their local recreation centres, so on. All of those things played a part in creating community. And yes, they were paid for by taxes. Which meant no ads, no up sell, no invasive tracking, no monetisation to worry about. I could just make a tool that served people. The tools I created are probably already long gone, but the community still exists. When I’m old I don’t think I’ll have the slightest regret about the work I did. The two years I spent at a startup, burning myself out to create a product that failed and has since vanished from the earth? I’ll regret that more.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jeofken 6y ago
  The joys of not needing ads and tracking are very true. The way I try to live that, is setting up automatic $1/month donations to all and every podcast/blog/oss project, etc I wish to support. They don’t track me, and I ensure more content to my liking will be produced. I wish ad based business models didn’t work so well - hopefully people will wise up to it and reject it. The flip side of what you speak of is the force and coercion required to fund all these nice things. I’ll use my country as an example: a family father may earn €4600/month (a good salary indeed!) but after income tax and “employment fee” receive €2650. When they spend, they pay a 25% sales tax (VAT). This means he gets to spend about €1700 of the €4600 value he creates. (Source: https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skatter/Rakna-ut-din-skatt/#&&/wEXAQUEY2FsYwUBMYDp9Tkj4OGAN4R9N1IUN54CiLz9yKMG5G2iLHW2Pox3 https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skat...) So as a back of the envelope calculation, you could say that if a government project costs €2650x2, one “effective” expert slave labourer is used for it. And the moral issue is this: these men (main tax funding group) must therefore, in order to fund their families, work more than otherwise, and not see their children. Their wives must often work too, and the obvious solution is to leave the kids in (government) daycare - which effectively is a daily abandonment trauma. The work I did for the government had a direct effect of children not seeing their fathers and mothers, but their upbringing being outsourced to the state. I think this is such a moral ugliness, I can have no part in it any more.
jobigoud 6y ago
I wish there was a portion of the taxes, say 10%, that the citizen would have the option to allocate to the category of their choice. Every year on your tax return you would pick education or infrastrucure or military as the target of your taxes. I think it would help with the feeling. Donations to public interest organizations works a bit like this. Part of the donation is removed from your revenue so it's like sending tax money directly to things you believe in.
- jeofken 6y ago
  Giving selflessly is virtuous when done voluntarily. You can do it if you wish!

drummer 6y ago

Congrats man. I similarly decided never to work for any government or connected organization ever again when I realized all governments are criminal orgs comparable to the mafia, living off of theft and extortion, basically slavery ('taxation').

jeofken 6y ago
Thanks. While I had an uneasy feeling at the time, it was people on the internet who put words on what I did wrong, and I am grateful to them. These people are sadly getting banned and downvoted by the majority on pretty much every platform. In those moments I remember Socrates, who was sentenced to death for his heresy - but now lives forever as the greatest philosopher of all times.
- drummer 6y ago
  Yep it is not easy to admit you were wrong and to have to make such drastic changes in your life. Especially not in the current climate. I had to do the same thing, and it is difficult, but also rewarding in a spiritual sense. Much respect to you, and good luck.

afavour 6y ago

> My coworkers would talk about tax payers in a demeaning tone - as if they rightfully owed us something. But... they do? Tax payers use public services every day. I get what you’re saying but if someone opted to not pay taxes surely it wouldn’t be fair for them to drive on public roads, or use public transit? Or drink water provided by city-maintained pipes? How on earth would you enforce that? If someone wished to live a life where they used absolutely zero tax payer funded things how would they even start? > I encourage anyone working for their “public sector” and especially tax departments to think about the morality of your work Many years ago I worked for a local government authority. It’s honestly some of the most rewarding work I’ve done before or since. I created pages and backend tools for people to look up trash collection, how to vote, what’s going on at their local recreation centres, so on. All of those things played a part in creating community. And yes, they were paid for by taxes. Which meant no ads, no up sell, no invasive tracking, no monetisation to worry about. I could just make a tool that served people. The tools I created are probably already long gone, but the community still exists. When I’m old I don’t think I’ll have the slightest regret about the work I did. The two years I spent at a startup, burning myself out to create a product that failed and has since vanished from the earth? I’ll regret that more.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jeofken 6y ago
The joys of not needing ads and tracking are very true. The way I try to live that, is setting up automatic $1/month donations to all and every podcast/blog/oss project, etc I wish to support. They don’t track me, and I ensure more content to my liking will be produced. I wish ad based business models didn’t work so well - hopefully people will wise up to it and reject it. The flip side of what you speak of is the force and coercion required to fund all these nice things. I’ll use my country as an example: a family father may earn €4600/month (a good salary indeed!) but after income tax and “employment fee” receive €2650. When they spend, they pay a 25% sales tax (VAT). This means he gets to spend about €1700 of the €4600 value he creates. (Source: https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skatter/Rakna-ut-din-skatt/#&&/wEXAQUEY2FsYwUBMYDp9Tkj4OGAN4R9N1IUN54CiLz9yKMG5G2iLHW2Pox3 https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skat...) So as a back of the envelope calculation, you could say that if a government project costs €2650x2, one “effective” expert slave labourer is used for it. And the moral issue is this: these men (main tax funding group) must therefore, in order to fund their families, work more than otherwise, and not see their children. Their wives must often work too, and the obvious solution is to leave the kids in (government) daycare - which effectively is a daily abandonment trauma. The work I did for the government had a direct effect of children not seeing their fathers and mothers, but their upbringing being outsourced to the state. I think this is such a moral ugliness, I can have no part in it any more.

jobigoud 6y ago

I wish there was a portion of the taxes, say 10%, that the citizen would have the option to allocate to the category of their choice. Every year on your tax return you would pick education or infrastrucure or military as the target of your taxes. I think it would help with the feeling. Donations to public interest organizations works a bit like this. Part of the donation is removed from your revenue so it's like sending tax money directly to things you believe in.

jeofken 6y ago
Giving selflessly is virtuous when done voluntarily. You can do it if you wish!