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It has always fascinated me that Smalltalk nearly universally comes with a window system and self-editing run-time. I remember Sun's "Lively Kernel" project. I
by sblom 6y ago
It has always fascinated me that Smalltalk nearly universally comes with a window system and self-editing run-time.
I remember Sun's "Lively Kernel" project. It looks like this has some of that DNA in it. I can't claim to have ever bent my brain to quite grok Smalltalk-and-attendant-tools, but I definitely appreciate its contribution to our software heritage and see traces of it all around, especially in the NeXT/Apple ecosystem.
- gjvc 6y agoThis is very much powered by the lively kernel. Dan H. H. Ingalls, the main programmer of Smalltalk-72, created The Lively Kernel and the Smalltalk Zoo site. It's great to see him continue his work. I think that Lively Kernel has huge potential to influence the current web. When you consider something like how this site (HN) operates, and could be implemented using something like the LK, perhaps we can start programming interactive systems better than we do. Note that the Lively Kernel dates from 2007 (!) -- development continues to be supported by the Hasso-Plattner institute in Potsdam, Germany. https://lively-next.org/ https://lively-next.org/
- hobby-coder-guy 6y agoWhat is the exclamation point for? Is 2007 old?
- igouy 6y ago"Dan Ingalls on the History of Smalltalk and the Lively Kernel" https://www.infoq.com/interviews/ingalls-smalltalk/ https://www.infoq.com/interviews/ingalls-smalltalk/
- fctorial 6y agoSo does javascript. It's just that js is too mainstream, and a lot more practical.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- remexre 6y agoI've never seen Smalltalk-style self-editing in a JavaScript framework; is there a specific one you're referring to? Or just the fact that it has eval()?
- fctorial 6y agoYou can edit html in devtools. You can also edit and save js files in devtools source tab and changes will be immediately visible. I think browser exposes apis for reloading as well, which is what framework devtools use (not sure about that one) so you don't have to use the browser for development. Does smalltalk provide anything over and above that?
- mumblemumble 6y agoSo much more over and above that.
- ljm 6y agoYou're describing an editor combined with a debugger. JS isn't your chrome inspector. You can't really do a like-for-like comparison. I encourage you to check out Pharo or Squeak, and at least do the intro tutorial, to see the difference for yourself. That's not to be elitist, it's just really worth trying out.
- mumblemumble 6y agoOr, perhaps even easier, check out one of these online Smalltalks in Smalltalk Zoo.