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Did you see the images of these so called terrorists? They have committed an illegal act by trespassing on government property but to call them seditious terror

Did you see the images of these so called terrorists? They have committed an illegal act by trespassing on government property but to call them seditious terrorists is a bit too far fetched. They're a bunch of clowns who happened to storm the capitol.

fphhotchips 6y ago
I'm not American, but what I saw on my TV last week was an outgoing President organising an armed mob outside the seat of Government and inciting them to disrupt the democratic transition of power. There were people inside the building that were clearly intending to take hostages. There was a gallows out the front. In any other nation on earth, this was an attempted coup. Just because it failed doesn't mean that those involved didn't have intent.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Well, it was a very incompetent coup. If Trump really intended a coup, he should have had friendly military embedded among the rioters. He shouldn't have said "now go home". It's a very half-hearted coup on the part of the president. Note well: I am far from saying that Trump is innocent. He absolutely should have known that his words would incite violence. In the most charitable light possible, he's still clueless about the effect his words would have. (I could kind of see his intent being to use the mob to pressure Congress, so that they would be inclined to see it Trump's way. He may have intended the mob surrounding the Capitol, but not the breach... in a very charitable interpretation. Even in that interpretation, though, he still very dangerously misjudged the effects of his words.) And Trump may well be guilty of more than that. He may well be guilty of attempting a coup to remain in power, and just not have had any idea of how to do it right. (I prefer that rogues be incompetent...)
  - akiselev 6y ago
    The Armed Forces [1], Capitol Police [2], and other law enforcement agencies around the country are investigating the participation of their members. It's going to take a while to sort everything out, but I'm betting it's more sinister than it appears give the gallows, flex cuffs, the former AF officers in tacticool gear, and the general rhetoric. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-investigating-service-members-participated-us-capitol-assault/story?id=75188339 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-investigating-servi... [2] https://www.wesh.com/article/2-capitol-police-officers-suspended-at-least-10-more-under-investigation-for-alleged-roles-in-riot/35183403 https://www.wesh.com/article/2-capitol-police-officers-suspe...
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > If Trump really intended a coup, he should have had friendly military embedded among the rioters. There were military personnel friendly to Trump among them. > He shouldn't have said "now go home". I may be confused on the timeline; wasn't that after members and electoral votes had been evacuated safely so the people overtly calling to execute the Speaker and VP, or otherwise plotting to capture, injure, or intimidate members, or destroy the electoral vote certificates to provide a pretext for their Congressional allies to resort to a vote-by-states in the absence of certified votes or to count the votes with selected states excluded had already failed?
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      Could be; I'm not sure. Still, at that point, saying "Go look in the House Office Building" (or wherever - I have no actual idea) would have been a better move for someone attempting an actual coup. But a cynic could easily think that Trump could tell that sufficient force was arriving to stop the mob, and that cutting his losses was therefore his best option at that point, even if he were really trying to do a coup...
      - fphhotchips 6y ago
        I think that's exactly what happened. He hit a point of no return and rather than go ahead, decided to save himself.
danans 6y ago
> They're a bunch of clowns who happened to storm the capitol. Clowns who beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher, planted pipe bombs, and roamed the capitol with sidearms and zip ties to take hostages. Still sure they're just clowns?
- rvn1045 6y ago
  Not denying that part of the group became violent. They should absolutely charged with whatever crimes they committed. But a lot of the reaction to them is a coordinated theatre by the left to make it seem much much worse that it was. Part of the strategy to make things seem worse then they are is to use words like sedition, insurrection etc
  - danans 6y ago
    They didn't "become" violent. It was an organized attempt to prevent the lawfully elected head of state from being certified and overthrow American democracy using violence. Even the least violent among them committed a felony by entering the Capitol building. That someone else broke the window they entered doesn't make their entry any less illegal.
    - rvn1045 6y ago
      Inserrectionists who stormed the capitol to take Congress people hostage and stop the vote got distracted by posing for the cameras, taking selfies and casually enjoying themselves
      - pii 6y ago
        It was an organized insurrection surrounded by a circus
      - danans 6y ago
        > to take Congress people hostage and stop the vote got distracted by posing for the cameras, taking selfies and casually enjoying themselves There's no contradiction there, despite your efforts to portray one. People often take glee in and celebrate violence even as they commit it against others. The german language has even given us a word for it: schadenfreude. Thanks to the lies from the politicians and media personalities they follow, primarily the president, many of these people also fantastically believed that they were overturning a fraudulent election, and were therefore celebrating what they thought was an imminent success in that objective.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
OniBait 6y ago
Some of my favorites are the little old lady carrying a little American flag, the people walking in a line between the roped off areas and the folks cleaning up after a couple of trash cans got overturned. Seemed incredibly tame compared to the riots that went on over the summer that had massive amounts of looting and had buildings burnt to the ground.
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  I dunno. I think once you build a gallows, hang a noose on it, and start chanting about hanging someone as you push against barricaded doors where that person is sheltering, tame is no longer is quite the right word.

fphhotchips 6y ago

I'm not American, but what I saw on my TV last week was an outgoing President organising an armed mob outside the seat of Government and inciting them to disrupt the democratic transition of power. There were people inside the building that were clearly intending to take hostages. There was a gallows out the front. In any other nation on earth, this was an attempted coup. Just because it failed doesn't mean that those involved didn't have intent.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Well, it was a very incompetent coup. If Trump really intended a coup, he should have had friendly military embedded among the rioters. He shouldn't have said "now go home". It's a very half-hearted coup on the part of the president. Note well: I am far from saying that Trump is innocent. He absolutely should have known that his words would incite violence. In the most charitable light possible, he's still clueless about the effect his words would have. (I could kind of see his intent being to use the mob to pressure Congress, so that they would be inclined to see it Trump's way. He may have intended the mob surrounding the Capitol, but not the breach... in a very charitable interpretation. Even in that interpretation, though, he still very dangerously misjudged the effects of his words.) And Trump may well be guilty of more than that. He may well be guilty of attempting a coup to remain in power, and just not have had any idea of how to do it right. (I prefer that rogues be incompetent...)
- akiselev 6y ago
  The Armed Forces [1], Capitol Police [2], and other law enforcement agencies around the country are investigating the participation of their members. It's going to take a while to sort everything out, but I'm betting it's more sinister than it appears give the gallows, flex cuffs, the former AF officers in tacticool gear, and the general rhetoric. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-investigating-service-members-participated-us-capitol-assault/story?id=75188339 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-investigating-servi... [2] https://www.wesh.com/article/2-capitol-police-officers-suspended-at-least-10-more-under-investigation-for-alleged-roles-in-riot/35183403 https://www.wesh.com/article/2-capitol-police-officers-suspe...
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > If Trump really intended a coup, he should have had friendly military embedded among the rioters. There were military personnel friendly to Trump among them. > He shouldn't have said "now go home". I may be confused on the timeline; wasn't that after members and electoral votes had been evacuated safely so the people overtly calling to execute the Speaker and VP, or otherwise plotting to capture, injure, or intimidate members, or destroy the electoral vote certificates to provide a pretext for their Congressional allies to resort to a vote-by-states in the absence of certified votes or to count the votes with selected states excluded had already failed?
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Could be; I'm not sure. Still, at that point, saying "Go look in the House Office Building" (or wherever - I have no actual idea) would have been a better move for someone attempting an actual coup. But a cynic could easily think that Trump could tell that sufficient force was arriving to stop the mob, and that cutting his losses was therefore his best option at that point, even if he were really trying to do a coup...
    - fphhotchips 6y ago
      I think that's exactly what happened. He hit a point of no return and rather than go ahead, decided to save himself.

danans 6y ago

> They're a bunch of clowns who happened to storm the capitol. Clowns who beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher, planted pipe bombs, and roamed the capitol with sidearms and zip ties to take hostages. Still sure they're just clowns?

rvn1045 6y ago
Not denying that part of the group became violent. They should absolutely charged with whatever crimes they committed. But a lot of the reaction to them is a coordinated theatre by the left to make it seem much much worse that it was. Part of the strategy to make things seem worse then they are is to use words like sedition, insurrection etc
- danans 6y ago
  They didn't "become" violent. It was an organized attempt to prevent the lawfully elected head of state from being certified and overthrow American democracy using violence. Even the least violent among them committed a felony by entering the Capitol building. That someone else broke the window they entered doesn't make their entry any less illegal.
  - rvn1045 6y ago
    Inserrectionists who stormed the capitol to take Congress people hostage and stop the vote got distracted by posing for the cameras, taking selfies and casually enjoying themselves
    - pii 6y ago
      It was an organized insurrection surrounded by a circus
    - danans 6y ago
      > to take Congress people hostage and stop the vote got distracted by posing for the cameras, taking selfies and casually enjoying themselves There's no contradiction there, despite your efforts to portray one. People often take glee in and celebrate violence even as they commit it against others. The german language has even given us a word for it: schadenfreude. Thanks to the lies from the politicians and media personalities they follow, primarily the president, many of these people also fantastically believed that they were overturning a fraudulent election, and were therefore celebrating what they thought was an imminent success in that objective.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

OniBait 6y ago

Some of my favorites are the little old lady carrying a little American flag, the people walking in a line between the roped off areas and the folks cleaning up after a couple of trash cans got overturned. Seemed incredibly tame compared to the riots that went on over the summer that had massive amounts of looting and had buildings burnt to the ground.

solidasparagus 6y ago
I dunno. I think once you build a gallows, hang a noose on it, and start chanting about hanging someone as you push against barricaded doors where that person is sheltering, tame is no longer is quite the right word.