4 ms·

I find these articles obnoxious and damaging in a way that far outlives their function. The article tries to lay down a false narrative as fact, and interweave

I find these articles obnoxious and damaging in a way that far outlives their function. The article tries to lay down a false narrative as fact, and interweaves it in such a way that it is not even proper for it to be questioned. For example, (there are numerous of these sprinkled in): > All of these actions were taken under dire circumstances — an attempted coup from a sitting president that left six people dead. You think that's what happened? Fine, I can disagree. But if you think that is a fact and there is no other way to understand the riot? IMO, not OK. If you slide it in to the background so that everyone who reads your article will assume that's the consensus? IMO, you are... not behaving correctly. The result is 1) misinformation abounds. 2) distrust abounds even more, and is deserved. 3) everything becomes politics. Please, please. Let's discuss the issues that need to be discussed, and keep the red/blue teams out. It will generate much more common will to work together and get things done. With the right attitude, it is even possible to work across the aisle. --- <ot> Some rules that make family gatherings work (and arguments are even fun): 1. Be fair. 2. The other guy is neither evil nor crazy. 3. Don't be a sore winner/loser </ot>

dragontamer 6y ago
All you need to know about team red vs team blue. 1. Team Blue is working to stop future riots of that style. 2. Team Red doesn't even have a plan, and is fully paralyzed by their decision making framework. ------ I CANNOT assume team red is "not evil", as you put it. Why? Because they're still trying to side with the rioters in this circumstance. They're still trying to claim that the election was stolen. So lets put return the ball to your court. What is your plan to prevent riots of 1/6th from breaking out again? Call me a cynic, but I am fully convinced that you have no plan. So prove me wrong. Show me what you've got. We know what got us here to begin with: literally months of lying about stolen election results. We cannot accept "protests" (if you want to whitewash the 1/6th riot with such a word) of that nature. The events that transpired on January 6th should never happen again. Period. ------- Team Red has millions of voters who believe the election was stolen and are acting upon those assumptions. Yes, this is a tragedy, because I believe they have been brainwashed with such lies. Given the circumstances, killing the propaganda that has been feeding their brains seems like a good step 1 for me. Maybe it won't work. Maybe there's a better solution out there. But I'm not hearing anything from team red. So screw it, lets give this deplatforming thing a shot. It's never really been tried at this level. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else later. ------- We tried elections. We tried the courts. We tried publicly discussing the court results. And what did it get us? A deadly riot (which is still the most whitewashed set of words I can use to describe the events of 1/6th). So yes. I'm cynical. But more than that. I'm convinced that the only way to solve this problem is to convince others to become cynics about this entire event too.
- sam_goody 6y ago
  > So screw it, lets give this deplatforming thing a shot. It's never really been tried at this level. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else later. No, unfairly cancelling the opposition has been tried on an even bigger level. Many, many times. The results are truly catastrophic for all the poor people ho actually live in the country. Seriously, I am old enough to know that you cannot take democracy, or free speech, or equality for granted. And any attempt to unfairly remove any of those rights is a truly slippery slope. --- Please understand the following. Ask almost anyone on Team Red and they will tell you: All you need to know about team red vs team blue. 1. Team Red is working to stop future riots of that style. 2. Team Blue doesn't even have a plan, and is fully paralyzed by their decision making framework. --- There are a lot of Republicans in the country. Are they really ALL crazy? Are they really ALL evil? I think that stepping back, and trying to understand that there is another point of view, even if it is in error, would do much more for you than you can imagine. BTW, I am not identifying with Red or Blue here - I am upset about dishonest behavior, and I don't care if it is from CNN or Fox.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    > There are a lot of Republicans in the country. Are they really ALL crazy? Are they really ALL evil? No. The ones who are evil are the ones who are demonizing the November elections. Sowing distrust across this country, and creating the conditions of riots. There are plenty of Republicans who care about proper transition of power. I'm one of them. > I think that stepping back, and trying to understand that there is another point of view, even if it is in error, would do much more for you than you can imagine. What's there to understand? They think the election is stolen, and that violence is the only way out. Its not exactly rocket science here. Yeah, I'd be pissed too if I were brainwashed into thinking the results of the election were stolen away by a cabal of conspirators. As stated earlier: we had an election. There were some doubts initially about whether or not it was fair. Then there were 60+ court cases challenging the results, all 60 of them went towards one side (proving that the concerns were unfounded). They still didn't accept the court cases, and then came to the Capitol to take the seat of power back... a coordinated protest (turned into a riot) coinciding with 130 House members + 13 Senators discussing the issue in the Capitol. What left is there to talk about? The election is over. The court cases are over. The electoral college votes are solidified. They're still angry. Where do we go from here? At some point, we just gotta say "you're angry for no good reason, stop being angry" and leave them alone (and hope that they don't get angrier). And if they keep being angry and start plotting insurrection across 50 states + the Capitol to coincide with Biden's inauguration, then I say lets deplatform the angry fools. Maybe a week off the internet will clam down their nerves a bit. ------- So you're against deplatforming them. I get that. What's your proposed solution? Do you want to give them the election that they rightfully lost (by nearly 10M popular votes, and by nearly 100 Electoral votes) ? Just because they're angry? A lot of people on your side of the debate are claiming "Without free speech, we don't have a democracy". Maybe last week I would have agreed with you, but things have changed DRAMATICALLY in just a week. Without __elections__, we don't have a democracy. I place the sanctity of elections above any of your free speech concerns. Far, far above free speech concerns.

dragontamer 6y ago

All you need to know about team red vs team blue. 1. Team Blue is working to stop future riots of that style. 2. Team Red doesn't even have a plan, and is fully paralyzed by their decision making framework. ------ I CANNOT assume team red is "not evil", as you put it. Why? Because they're still trying to side with the rioters in this circumstance. They're still trying to claim that the election was stolen. So lets put return the ball to your court. What is your plan to prevent riots of 1/6th from breaking out again? Call me a cynic, but I am fully convinced that you have no plan. So prove me wrong. Show me what you've got. We know what got us here to begin with: literally months of lying about stolen election results. We cannot accept "protests" (if you want to whitewash the 1/6th riot with such a word) of that nature. The events that transpired on January 6th should never happen again. Period. ------- Team Red has millions of voters who believe the election was stolen and are acting upon those assumptions. Yes, this is a tragedy, because I believe they have been brainwashed with such lies. Given the circumstances, killing the propaganda that has been feeding their brains seems like a good step 1 for me. Maybe it won't work. Maybe there's a better solution out there. But I'm not hearing anything from team red. So screw it, lets give this deplatforming thing a shot. It's never really been tried at this level. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else later. ------- We tried elections. We tried the courts. We tried publicly discussing the court results. And what did it get us? A deadly riot (which is still the most whitewashed set of words I can use to describe the events of 1/6th). So yes. I'm cynical. But more than that. I'm convinced that the only way to solve this problem is to convince others to become cynics about this entire event too.

sam_goody 6y ago
> So screw it, lets give this deplatforming thing a shot. It's never really been tried at this level. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else later. No, unfairly cancelling the opposition has been tried on an even bigger level. Many, many times. The results are truly catastrophic for all the poor people ho actually live in the country. Seriously, I am old enough to know that you cannot take democracy, or free speech, or equality for granted. And any attempt to unfairly remove any of those rights is a truly slippery slope. --- Please understand the following. Ask almost anyone on Team Red and they will tell you: All you need to know about team red vs team blue. 1. Team Red is working to stop future riots of that style. 2. Team Blue doesn't even have a plan, and is fully paralyzed by their decision making framework. --- There are a lot of Republicans in the country. Are they really ALL crazy? Are they really ALL evil? I think that stepping back, and trying to understand that there is another point of view, even if it is in error, would do much more for you than you can imagine. BTW, I am not identifying with Red or Blue here - I am upset about dishonest behavior, and I don't care if it is from CNN or Fox.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > There are a lot of Republicans in the country. Are they really ALL crazy? Are they really ALL evil? No. The ones who are evil are the ones who are demonizing the November elections. Sowing distrust across this country, and creating the conditions of riots. There are plenty of Republicans who care about proper transition of power. I'm one of them. > I think that stepping back, and trying to understand that there is another point of view, even if it is in error, would do much more for you than you can imagine. What's there to understand? They think the election is stolen, and that violence is the only way out. Its not exactly rocket science here. Yeah, I'd be pissed too if I were brainwashed into thinking the results of the election were stolen away by a cabal of conspirators. As stated earlier: we had an election. There were some doubts initially about whether or not it was fair. Then there were 60+ court cases challenging the results, all 60 of them went towards one side (proving that the concerns were unfounded). They still didn't accept the court cases, and then came to the Capitol to take the seat of power back... a coordinated protest (turned into a riot) coinciding with 130 House members + 13 Senators discussing the issue in the Capitol. What left is there to talk about? The election is over. The court cases are over. The electoral college votes are solidified. They're still angry. Where do we go from here? At some point, we just gotta say "you're angry for no good reason, stop being angry" and leave them alone (and hope that they don't get angrier). And if they keep being angry and start plotting insurrection across 50 states + the Capitol to coincide with Biden's inauguration, then I say lets deplatform the angry fools. Maybe a week off the internet will clam down their nerves a bit. ------- So you're against deplatforming them. I get that. What's your proposed solution? Do you want to give them the election that they rightfully lost (by nearly 10M popular votes, and by nearly 100 Electoral votes) ? Just because they're angry? A lot of people on your side of the debate are claiming "Without free speech, we don't have a democracy". Maybe last week I would have agreed with you, but things have changed DRAMATICALLY in just a week. Without __elections__, we don't have a democracy. I place the sanctity of elections above any of your free speech concerns. Far, far above free speech concerns.