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> 139 Representatives and 8 senators voted to overturn the will of the people after rioters had gone home. Most, I assume, know full well that there's no credib

> 139 Representatives and 8 senators voted to overturn the will of the people after rioters had gone home. Most, I assume, know full well that there's no credible evidence the election was fraudulent, but their fear of a primary challenge outweighs their oath to defend the constitution. This is a very common meme that I think we should combat. In the absence of evidence that these elected officials believe something contrary to their actions, we should instead assume that their actions actually do follow their beliefs.

mcguire 6y ago
At what point do you decide that someone is not speaking in good faith? The tenth time you point out the evidence that their beliefs are wrong? When they call for your execution?
- brandmeyer 6y ago
  "Stop lying!" is ineffective, because they don't think they are lying. They are believing things to be true based on circumstantial evidence and wishful thinking because they actively want to believe it is true. IMO, if Trump and Cruz and all the rest are lying then they first and foremost lied to themselves. And it is ferociously difficult to convince someone that they are lying to themselves. IMO, folks didn't take away the right lessons from the justification for the Iraq War. Those in charge believed the shoddy evidence for WMDs because they were actively looking for evidence that supported their POV and would justify the actions they wanted to take. The lesson should be to demand a higher evidentiary standard before you act on it. To be cold and dispassionate about that evaluation. I remember watching Colin Powell's presentation to the UN. There is no doubt in my mind that he believed in what he was saying. Nevertheless, dispassionate observers could tell that this was not hard evidence. "Trust us, its well-supported," cannot be sufficient justification for actions on the scale of "invade another country" or "overturn an election". Nobody should accept that any more.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    When someone accuses me of lying, I try to dredge up the evidence that backs up my beliefs and present it. If I cannot, I admit I am wrong or at least do not have any evidence for my beliefs, as I am not a complete degenerate. I hold everyone else to these same standards. In cases where I'm actually lying...well, I try not to do that as I don't think it's a long-term winning strategy. (I could be wrong about that.)

mcguire 6y ago

At what point do you decide that someone is not speaking in good faith? The tenth time you point out the evidence that their beliefs are wrong? When they call for your execution?

brandmeyer 6y ago
"Stop lying!" is ineffective, because they don't think they are lying. They are believing things to be true based on circumstantial evidence and wishful thinking because they actively want to believe it is true. IMO, if Trump and Cruz and all the rest are lying then they first and foremost lied to themselves. And it is ferociously difficult to convince someone that they are lying to themselves. IMO, folks didn't take away the right lessons from the justification for the Iraq War. Those in charge believed the shoddy evidence for WMDs because they were actively looking for evidence that supported their POV and would justify the actions they wanted to take. The lesson should be to demand a higher evidentiary standard before you act on it. To be cold and dispassionate about that evaluation. I remember watching Colin Powell's presentation to the UN. There is no doubt in my mind that he believed in what he was saying. Nevertheless, dispassionate observers could tell that this was not hard evidence. "Trust us, its well-supported," cannot be sufficient justification for actions on the scale of "invade another country" or "overturn an election". Nobody should accept that any more.
- mcguire 6y ago
  When someone accuses me of lying, I try to dredge up the evidence that backs up my beliefs and present it. If I cannot, I admit I am wrong or at least do not have any evidence for my beliefs, as I am not a complete degenerate. I hold everyone else to these same standards. In cases where I'm actually lying...well, I try not to do that as I don't think it's a long-term winning strategy. (I could be wrong about that.)