4 ms·

Every time I travel abroad, I'm amazed by how much Huawei has penetrated every major market except U.S.

coliveira 6y ago
The reason is obvious: the US is enacting barriers to the internal market. But Huawei is developing all kinds of technology around the world.
- heyflyguy 6y ago
  because spying.
  - throw48573 6y ago
    because "reports" of spying.
- neither_color 6y ago
  The US is responding to asymmetrical access. Facebook, Google, Twitter, Instagram et al have been blocked for years in China. As of this week I'm ok with that but I digress. Apple's the only foreign cell phone maker that's really done alright in absolute dollar terms, but their market share is rather small. Access to the tantalizing "rising chinese middle class" is tantalizing and highly conditional. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    > Facebook, Google, Twitter, Instagram et al have been blocked for years in China. The Chinese government did not decide this on a whim, these companies are not willing to comply with Chinese rules within China. Whatever we might think of these rules the bottom line is that these companies are not in China because they have decided not to be. And when they try to move in, like Google did, their very employees argue against it. China is Apple's largest market, iirc, they are doing very well there. For smartphones their market share is 3 times their market share in India. Still, a lot of Chinese still cannot afford iPhones and China has many domestic manufacturers: Actual competition is fierce, this has nothing to do with politics. The argument that the US are retaliating against China blocking the FAANG is largely for the show but not reality.
    - qeternity 6y ago
      That’s a bit rich. The same could be argued about Huawei. The rules in the US are don’t be agent for a foreign government, but Huawei wouldn’t agree to that. So it’s also their own choice.
      - mytailorisrich 6y ago
        That's (bad) whataboutism, and nothing to do with my comment. > The rules in the US are don’t be agent for a foreign government, but Huawei wouldn’t agree to that. I'll bite: If you have proof, or even actual evidence, of any part of that statement, I am sure the public at large would be very interested. Unfortunately this topic always leads to this sort of low effort reply and a sensible discussion is never possible.
        sonotmyname 6y ago
        > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/05/huawei-staff-cvs-reveal-alleged-links-chinese-intelligence-agencies/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/05/huawei-staff-cvs... > https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/07/06/huawei-employees-linked-to-chinas-state-intelligence-agencies-report-claims/?sh=5c576a554b24 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/07/06/huawei-em... > https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officials-say-huawei-can-covertly-access-telecom-networks-11581452256 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officials-say-huawei-can-co... This is not news. Aside from the spying, Huawei has zero regard for Intellectual Property law, as demonstrated by numerous cases of stolen code, designs, and even wholesale products.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        "US officials say ..." - That counts for very little. Where's the evidence? The other stories are about some of Huawei's employees having on their CV that they've worked with the PLA and other government agencies. By that metric, what major US company isn't connected to the US government? > numerous cases of stolen code, designs, and even wholesale products. This is a huge exaggeration. Huawei has had IP disputes with other companies, and there have been some allegations like T-Mobile's claims about its "Tappy" robot being copied, but this is all relatively minor stuff for a massive company. Compared to the IP disputes between Apple and Samsung, for example, this is peanuts. On the other hand, Huawei is one of the largest R&D spenders in the world now.
mlacks 6y ago
I wonder if it’s partly due to the US being able to afford alternatives, wether they are cost effective or not. For many installments, the Huawei option is just cheaper. Keep in mind China does the same for US technology companies.
- lozaning 6y ago
  Companies in the US largely just dont trust them. Huawei used to be on my line card when I was an SE like 7 years ago, and I'd always give people a quote for the huawei stuff, and then they'd always went with the HP stuff at like 1.5X the price.
the_duke 6y ago
And Europe. Sure, there are some Huawei phones and other devices around, but they are not very common. (mobile phone market share in Europe is ~ 15%, and lower in the western Europe)
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  Huawei had nearly 25% of the smartphone market in Europe before US sanctions hit. It was essentially even with Samsung and Apple.

The reason is obvious: the US is enacting barriers to the internal market. But Huawei is developing all kinds of technology around the world.

heyflyguy 6y ago
because spying.
- throw48573 6y ago
  because "reports" of spying.
neither_color 6y ago
The US is responding to asymmetrical access. Facebook, Google, Twitter, Instagram et al have been blocked for years in China. As of this week I'm ok with that but I digress. Apple's the only foreign cell phone maker that's really done alright in absolute dollar terms, but their market share is rather small. Access to the tantalizing "rising chinese middle class" is tantalizing and highly conditional. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  > Facebook, Google, Twitter, Instagram et al have been blocked for years in China. The Chinese government did not decide this on a whim, these companies are not willing to comply with Chinese rules within China. Whatever we might think of these rules the bottom line is that these companies are not in China because they have decided not to be. And when they try to move in, like Google did, their very employees argue against it. China is Apple's largest market, iirc, they are doing very well there. For smartphones their market share is 3 times their market share in India. Still, a lot of Chinese still cannot afford iPhones and China has many domestic manufacturers: Actual competition is fierce, this has nothing to do with politics. The argument that the US are retaliating against China blocking the FAANG is largely for the show but not reality.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    That’s a bit rich. The same could be argued about Huawei. The rules in the US are don’t be agent for a foreign government, but Huawei wouldn’t agree to that. So it’s also their own choice.
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      That's (bad) whataboutism, and nothing to do with my comment. > The rules in the US are don’t be agent for a foreign government, but Huawei wouldn’t agree to that. I'll bite: If you have proof, or even actual evidence, of any part of that statement, I am sure the public at large would be very interested. Unfortunately this topic always leads to this sort of low effort reply and a sensible discussion is never possible.
      - sonotmyname 6y ago
        > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/05/huawei-staff-cvs-reveal-alleged-links-chinese-intelligence-agencies/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/05/huawei-staff-cvs... > https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/07/06/huawei-employees-linked-to-chinas-state-intelligence-agencies-report-claims/?sh=5c576a554b24 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/07/06/huawei-em... > https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officials-say-huawei-can-covertly-access-telecom-networks-11581452256 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officials-say-huawei-can-co... This is not news. Aside from the spying, Huawei has zero regard for Intellectual Property law, as demonstrated by numerous cases of stolen code, designs, and even wholesale products.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        "US officials say ..." - That counts for very little. Where's the evidence? The other stories are about some of Huawei's employees having on their CV that they've worked with the PLA and other government agencies. By that metric, what major US company isn't connected to the US government? > numerous cases of stolen code, designs, and even wholesale products. This is a huge exaggeration. Huawei has had IP disputes with other companies, and there have been some allegations like T-Mobile's claims about its "Tappy" robot being copied, but this is all relatively minor stuff for a massive company. Compared to the IP disputes between Apple and Samsung, for example, this is peanuts. On the other hand, Huawei is one of the largest R&D spenders in the world now.

mlacks 6y ago

I wonder if it’s partly due to the US being able to afford alternatives, wether they are cost effective or not. For many installments, the Huawei option is just cheaper. Keep in mind China does the same for US technology companies.

lozaning 6y ago
Companies in the US largely just dont trust them. Huawei used to be on my line card when I was an SE like 7 years ago, and I'd always give people a quote for the huawei stuff, and then they'd always went with the HP stuff at like 1.5X the price.

the_duke 6y ago

And Europe. Sure, there are some Huawei phones and other devices around, but they are not very common. (mobile phone market share in Europe is ~ 15%, and lower in the western Europe)

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
Huawei had nearly 25% of the smartphone market in Europe before US sanctions hit. It was essentially even with Samsung and Apple.