3 ms·
Two possible counterpoints / additions to this: 1. I still believe that lies started the legitimate belief. E.g. republican leaders like Trump lied about elect
by noahtallen 6y ago
Two possible counterpoints / additions to this:
1. I still believe that lies started the legitimate belief. E.g. republican leaders like Trump lied about election fraud, convincing many that a problem exists which does not. Perhaps we might call that propaganda, or disinformation. So if we are to address the source of this problem, we cannot avoid the root lies which started the whole thing.
2. I believe that many have found it exceedingly difficult to refute the arguments of some of these folk, simply because they often do not approach these conversations in good faith. There is certainly a personality cult around Trump which many have been sucked into. It's not as simple as just "convincing" a cult member that they are logically or empirically wrong.
Is it acceptable for someone to be a cult member? Sure, absolutely. One can believe whatever they wish, as is their right. The problem happens when these beliefs become mostly violent and criminal. From what I gather, many have been taking this propaganda and turning it into a campaign to execute political leaders.
My take on the current problem is that people and companies are distancing themselves from the violent aspect of the far-right movement. This includes websites which are radicalizing people (Parler), and the leaders who are incentivizing the behavior (Trump). I find this a good thing -- these are sources of the lies.
No one is throwing people in jail for believing the election could be more secure. This does not prevent someone from having questions about the election, or conversations about it with people around them. It's not going to get you banned from reddit, or hackernews. Maybe you'll get downvoted because the questions (from my point of view) have been very thoroughly answered and debunked at this point, so to not know that might demonstrate that you haven't done much research on the topic, or are just ignoring the answers.
- throw0101a 6y ago> 1. I still believe that lies started the legitimate belief. E.g. republican leaders like Trump lied about election fraud, convincing many that a problem exists which does not. I have kept coming back to this over the last five years: > On Bullshit is a 2005 book (originally a 1986 essay) by philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt which presents a theory of bullshit that defines the concept and analyzes the applications of bullshit in the context of communication. Frankfurt determines that bullshit is speech intended to persuade without regard for truth. The liar cares about the truth and attempts to hide it; the bullshitter doesn't care if what they say is true or false, but rather only cares whether their listener is persuaded.[1] Frankfurt's philosophical analysis of bullshit has been analysed, criticised and adopted by academics since its publication.[2] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit IMHO this applies 100% to Trump (and many of his enablers). He will say different things days apart and cares not what was uttered before: he just spits out whatever he thinks will work in the moment, and if it sticks, he'll run with it until it stops working.