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How come you always hear this kind of stuff from Google but not a peep from the other FAANGS, especially Apple.

unix_fan 6y ago
Because google employees hold extremely comfortable jobs, meaning they have more time for activism. There is a massive entitlement culture within the company.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  If Google has "massive entitlement culture", then HN has massive "boss worship" culture.
neaden 6y ago
I don't know about Apple but Amazon has Amazon Workers for Climate Justice which is a similar group.
yaacov 6y ago
I hear about stuff like this from Facebook pretty often, and to some extent from Amazon and Microsoft. Apple might be different because they’re mostly just making devices? The social implications are less obvious.
neartheplain 6y ago
For many years, Google leadership fostered a particularly open culture with vigorous internal debate and discussion. They held weekly all-hands Q&A sessions with Larry and Sergey, built an internal tool for sharing company-related image memes (including those critical of leadership), and hosted high-traffic internal mailing lists on a wide range of political and non-work related subjects. Some of this has been curtailed in recent years, as leaks to the press increased and activist employees became increasingly critical of management.
scottlamb 6y ago
Because Google attracted a lot of employees who care about corporate ethics with its "don't be evil" reputation. That reputation has faded as people learned about cases when Google didn't live up to it [1] but there are still a _lot_ of Googlers who want to hold Google to the old standard. If there were another large tech company with a reputation for great ethics, many of these people would probably go there instead. But in spite of a lot of disillusionment, Google still seems to be the best of the FAANGs IMHO. Full disclosure: I just left Google. I'm taking a break before looking for something new, but if someone knows of a tech company that is as ethical as I once thought Google was, I'd love to hear it... [1] The wage-fixing cartel, several exec sexual harassment complaints and Andy Rubin's $90 million severance, double-speak around Project Maven, the complaints behind the walkout and ultimately Google firing the walkout organizers, etc.
- dilDDoS 6y ago
  Wait people were fooled by the "don't be evil" thing? That's just willful ignorance, in my opinion. I don't fault anyone for wanting to work at Google. The pay and reputation it carries are hard to ignore. But anyone expecting Google to be a moral authority, or to ever "do the right thing" when it comes to ethics vs money are just plain delusional.
  - scottlamb 6y ago
    I disagree. I pointed out some times Google didn't live up to this reputation, but there are also many times Google did something contrary to their short-term interests due to ethics and/or long-term "enlightened self-interest" thinking. A few examples: * Google pulling out of China and ending their censorship. [1] I was proud to work there when this happened. * They also generally treat their employees quite well compared to say Amazon. They treated me (a long-time SWE) personally quite well over the years, with the obvious exception of the wage-fixing that the other companies also participated in. They also do relatively well for non-SWEs, including temps and contractors. Eg, I believe they're still paying all the food staff even when they haven't been preparing meals on the same scale for months, which is pretty extraordinary. * Their internal privacy attitude and controls are a lot better than many external people believe. * They have a $10,000/year match for charitable donations. [1] https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...

Because google employees hold extremely comfortable jobs, meaning they have more time for activism. There is a massive entitlement culture within the company.

whimsicalism 6y ago
If Google has "massive entitlement culture", then HN has massive "boss worship" culture.

neaden 6y ago

I don't know about Apple but Amazon has Amazon Workers for Climate Justice which is a similar group.

yaacov 6y ago

I hear about stuff like this from Facebook pretty often, and to some extent from Amazon and Microsoft. Apple might be different because they’re mostly just making devices? The social implications are less obvious.

neartheplain 6y ago

For many years, Google leadership fostered a particularly open culture with vigorous internal debate and discussion. They held weekly all-hands Q&A sessions with Larry and Sergey, built an internal tool for sharing company-related image memes (including those critical of leadership), and hosted high-traffic internal mailing lists on a wide range of political and non-work related subjects. Some of this has been curtailed in recent years, as leaks to the press increased and activist employees became increasingly critical of management.

scottlamb 6y ago

Because Google attracted a lot of employees who care about corporate ethics with its "don't be evil" reputation. That reputation has faded as people learned about cases when Google didn't live up to it [1] but there are still a _lot_ of Googlers who want to hold Google to the old standard. If there were another large tech company with a reputation for great ethics, many of these people would probably go there instead. But in spite of a lot of disillusionment, Google still seems to be the best of the FAANGs IMHO. Full disclosure: I just left Google. I'm taking a break before looking for something new, but if someone knows of a tech company that is as ethical as I once thought Google was, I'd love to hear it... [1] The wage-fixing cartel, several exec sexual harassment complaints and Andy Rubin's $90 million severance, double-speak around Project Maven, the complaints behind the walkout and ultimately Google firing the walkout organizers, etc.

dilDDoS 6y ago
Wait people were fooled by the "don't be evil" thing? That's just willful ignorance, in my opinion. I don't fault anyone for wanting to work at Google. The pay and reputation it carries are hard to ignore. But anyone expecting Google to be a moral authority, or to ever "do the right thing" when it comes to ethics vs money are just plain delusional.
- scottlamb 6y ago
  I disagree. I pointed out some times Google didn't live up to this reputation, but there are also many times Google did something contrary to their short-term interests due to ethics and/or long-term "enlightened self-interest" thinking. A few examples: * Google pulling out of China and ending their censorship. [1] I was proud to work there when this happened. * They also generally treat their employees quite well compared to say Amazon. They treated me (a long-time SWE) personally quite well over the years, with the obvious exception of the wage-fixing that the other companies also participated in. They also do relatively well for non-SWEs, including temps and contractors. Eg, I believe they're still paying all the food staff even when they haven't been preparing meals on the same scale for months, which is pretty extraordinary. * Their internal privacy attitude and controls are a lot better than many external people believe. * They have a $10,000/year match for charitable donations. [1] https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...