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I've currently a Unifi USG at home with my 1gbps symmetric connection. Generally it's pretty good. However a recent software update has completely broken IPv6

by Jonnax 6y ago

I've currently a Unifi USG at home with my 1gbps symmetric connection. Generally it's pretty good. However a recent software update has completely broken IPv6 prefix delegation. So I've been thinking of replacing it with a more open router. I've seen pfsense is popular, but OpenWRT also seems to be quite active and Linux based which I'm more familiar with. But also for smaller less power hungry machines. My use case is a router so I don't need cores or ram, but rather being able to meet the network throughput for a low power consumption. Is there anything that bits the bill? Preferably something that was released recently to ensure software updates will be easy on it. Would the H2 work?

walterbell 6y ago
PC Engines APU2, https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm (6W TDP fanless, 3 ports)
- Jonnax 6y ago
  I've seen it before and it looks really good but the CPU was released in 2014 So I'm a bit worried about future software support. Reading this: https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-throughput-pfsense/ https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-through... It looks like 1gbps is possible with tweaks. My hope is whether there's a more plug and play solution.
- stragies 6y ago
  Does the AMD Jaguar GX-412TC SOC really handle full Gigabit with non-trivial rules and/or SQM? Also the 6W is the minimum, it goes up to 10 under load.
  - vegardx 6y ago
    I doubt it. But if you're comparing with products from Ubiquiti (especially the Unifi line) you're probably going to see similar performance anyway. I switched to a APU2 as my home router two years ago, and I've been very happy with it. Doesn't seem to break a sweat handling a gigabit connection in a typical home setting, running VyOS. I'd probably think about something more powerful in an office or data center.
  - jbronn 6y ago
    I’ve been using APU2 systems for several years. It can handle gigabit if you’re using Linux and your ISP doesn’t use PPPoE. On PPPoE it tops out around 500mbps for download and 800mbps for upload.
  - bronco21016 6y ago
    https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-throughput-pfsense/ https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-through... has the necessary tweaks to get full gigabit. I've applied all of the tweaks and I haven't ever seen it sustain anywhere near 1 Gigabit on a single connection. That's using both a datacenter iperf3 instance and sites like speedtest.net. Multiple connections can easily breach 1 Gigabit though.
- traspler 6y ago
  I've ran pfSense on older ALIX and the APU boards. On the APU I sadly got nowhere close to my symmetric gigabit speeds. I'm not that knowledgeable on network stacks but from what I heard it's probably BSDs network stack that doesn't cut it on that hardware. I've read that MikroTik's RouterOS delivers significantly more performance on an APU Board but I've not tried that yet (but plan to).
koolk3ychain 6y ago
To be frank current versions of PfSense have been nothing but disappointing since the recent parent acquisition of PfSense. I got frustrated enough with errant problems that I just bought a proper enterprise grade router. Never looked back.
- antongribok 6y ago
  What did you buy?
  - koolk3ychain 6y ago
    Since I run a lot of 10G fiber and use proper 10G switches (none of this Ubiquiti garbage) layer 3 routing from the router itself was an absolute must. I decided on the PaloAlto Networks PA-220 https://www.paloguard.com/Firewall-PA-220.asp https://www.paloguard.com/Firewall-PA-220.asp . Yes, I know - it's expensive. However, their support is fantastic and my employer agreed to pay for a portion of the licensing since I mostly require this for WFH. Zero issues, passive cooling, top notch security and this thing just freaking purrs.
    - pdimitar 6y ago
      This is likely off-topic but I am looking hard at having home 10Gbps network and I struggle to find noise-less switches that allow copper 10Gbps links. I am okay with buying one fanless Mikrotik 10Gbps switch with SFP cages and buy adapters but I am open to other ideas. Can you recommend quiet 10Gbps switches that support copper links?
      - koolk3ychain 6y ago
        Copper links in the form of ethernet 10g base t or copper links as direct attach sfp+ cables? 10g base t ethernet uses quite a bit more power, so those switches are usually always loud. Also, 10g base t tranceivers when used long term can actually damage sfp+ switches and cost wise they make absolutely zero sense. To be frank, in the long run if you plan to make any changes to your setup, buying transceivers from FS.com and fiber cables (even armored fiber) for that matter is about the same price as copper direct attach cables. Also much easier to cable manage and they can be used with cable lengths from 0.2m to 400m in most cases. I currently use a Cisco Nexus 3064 - https://www.ebay.com/p/219487215 https://www.ebay.com/p/219487215 It's kind of loud but I keep my hardware in a closet and to be honest, enterprise hardware like this makes heat and needs fans for a good reason haha. If you're looking for a more consumer entry and don't care about L3 routing Ubiquiti actually makes one hell of a damn good sfp+ "switch" for the money -> https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-16-xg/ https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-16-xg/ and again - cannot recommend FS.com enough for their service and quality products. Even if it was a little weird that their sales rep immediately added me on LinkedIn?
mikepurvis 6y ago
Another popular low-cost option is to run pfSense on an old thin client. The ideal hardware is something like the HP T610+ or T620+, which even have a PCIe slot for you to add a secondary ethernet interface if you don't want to get a VLAN switch and have to do a router-on-a-stick configuration. The form factor is nice because it's quiet, a lot smaller than a full PC, it's set up for wall/VESA mounting, and you don't need to muck about with buying specialty cases as you do for MiniITX motherboards or other SBCs. Anyway, predictably these things are being constantly cycled out and can typically be had on ebay for $100-200.
- vegardx 6y ago
  Which is about as much as more specialized, but brand new hardware, like the PCEngines APU2.
  - Jonnax 6y ago
    It uses a CPU from 2014 however: https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-G-Series%20GX-412TC.html https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-G-Series%20GX-412TC....
    - vegardx 6y ago
      Yes, but it also super compact, draws very little power and it has multiple network interfaces. It's also fanless, which makes it ideal for long running set-up-and-forget scenarios that home routers typically are.
      - alrs 6y ago
        The HP T620+ is fanless, draws very little power, and has a PCIe slot so you can run multiple network interfaces. 4 cores, 25W TDP. model name : AMD GX-420CA SOC with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
        zokier 6y ago
        So T620+ and APU2 have otherwise same CPU (quad Jaguar cores) but T620+ runs it at 2GHz/25W and APU2 at 1GHz/6W
adrian_b 6y ago
The H2, with a Gemini Lake Refresh CPU, is certainly much faster than the APU2 which somebody suggested and also much faster than any cheap ARM device that uses old ARM cores like Cortex-A72 or Cortex-A73. I think that H2 is a good choice for a router/firewall, it is faster than anything in that price range, it is silent with passive cooling and the power consumption in normal use is much less than 10 W. Being a standard PC, any Linux distribution, as well as FreeBSD, Windows or any other OS can be installed without problems. I have used in the past a few older ODROID models and I have been content with them.

by Jonnax 6y ago

walterbell 6y ago

PC Engines APU2, https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm (6W TDP fanless, 3 ports)

Jonnax 6y ago
I've seen it before and it looks really good but the CPU was released in 2014 So I'm a bit worried about future software support. Reading this: https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-throughput-pfsense/ https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-through... It looks like 1gbps is possible with tweaks. My hope is whether there's a more plug and play solution.
stragies 6y ago
Does the AMD Jaguar GX-412TC SOC really handle full Gigabit with non-trivial rules and/or SQM? Also the 6W is the minimum, it goes up to 10 under load.
- vegardx 6y ago
  I doubt it. But if you're comparing with products from Ubiquiti (especially the Unifi line) you're probably going to see similar performance anyway. I switched to a APU2 as my home router two years ago, and I've been very happy with it. Doesn't seem to break a sweat handling a gigabit connection in a typical home setting, running VyOS. I'd probably think about something more powerful in an office or data center.
- jbronn 6y ago
  I’ve been using APU2 systems for several years. It can handle gigabit if you’re using Linux and your ISP doesn’t use PPPoE. On PPPoE it tops out around 500mbps for download and 800mbps for upload.
- bronco21016 6y ago
  https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-throughput-pfsense/ https://teklager.se/en/knowledge-base/apu2-1-gigabit-through... has the necessary tweaks to get full gigabit. I've applied all of the tweaks and I haven't ever seen it sustain anywhere near 1 Gigabit on a single connection. That's using both a datacenter iperf3 instance and sites like speedtest.net. Multiple connections can easily breach 1 Gigabit though.
traspler 6y ago
I've ran pfSense on older ALIX and the APU boards. On the APU I sadly got nowhere close to my symmetric gigabit speeds. I'm not that knowledgeable on network stacks but from what I heard it's probably BSDs network stack that doesn't cut it on that hardware. I've read that MikroTik's RouterOS delivers significantly more performance on an APU Board but I've not tried that yet (but plan to).

koolk3ychain 6y ago

To be frank current versions of PfSense have been nothing but disappointing since the recent parent acquisition of PfSense. I got frustrated enough with errant problems that I just bought a proper enterprise grade router. Never looked back.

antongribok 6y ago
What did you buy?
- koolk3ychain 6y ago
  Since I run a lot of 10G fiber and use proper 10G switches (none of this Ubiquiti garbage) layer 3 routing from the router itself was an absolute must. I decided on the PaloAlto Networks PA-220 https://www.paloguard.com/Firewall-PA-220.asp https://www.paloguard.com/Firewall-PA-220.asp . Yes, I know - it's expensive. However, their support is fantastic and my employer agreed to pay for a portion of the licensing since I mostly require this for WFH. Zero issues, passive cooling, top notch security and this thing just freaking purrs.
  - pdimitar 6y ago
    This is likely off-topic but I am looking hard at having home 10Gbps network and I struggle to find noise-less switches that allow copper 10Gbps links. I am okay with buying one fanless Mikrotik 10Gbps switch with SFP cages and buy adapters but I am open to other ideas. Can you recommend quiet 10Gbps switches that support copper links?
    - koolk3ychain 6y ago
      Copper links in the form of ethernet 10g base t or copper links as direct attach sfp+ cables? 10g base t ethernet uses quite a bit more power, so those switches are usually always loud. Also, 10g base t tranceivers when used long term can actually damage sfp+ switches and cost wise they make absolutely zero sense. To be frank, in the long run if you plan to make any changes to your setup, buying transceivers from FS.com and fiber cables (even armored fiber) for that matter is about the same price as copper direct attach cables. Also much easier to cable manage and they can be used with cable lengths from 0.2m to 400m in most cases. I currently use a Cisco Nexus 3064 - https://www.ebay.com/p/219487215 https://www.ebay.com/p/219487215 It's kind of loud but I keep my hardware in a closet and to be honest, enterprise hardware like this makes heat and needs fans for a good reason haha. If you're looking for a more consumer entry and don't care about L3 routing Ubiquiti actually makes one hell of a damn good sfp+ "switch" for the money -> https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-16-xg/ https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-16-xg/ and again - cannot recommend FS.com enough for their service and quality products. Even if it was a little weird that their sales rep immediately added me on LinkedIn?

mikepurvis 6y ago

Another popular low-cost option is to run pfSense on an old thin client. The ideal hardware is something like the HP T610+ or T620+, which even have a PCIe slot for you to add a secondary ethernet interface if you don't want to get a VLAN switch and have to do a router-on-a-stick configuration. The form factor is nice because it's quiet, a lot smaller than a full PC, it's set up for wall/VESA mounting, and you don't need to muck about with buying specialty cases as you do for MiniITX motherboards or other SBCs. Anyway, predictably these things are being constantly cycled out and can typically be had on ebay for $100-200.

vegardx 6y ago
Which is about as much as more specialized, but brand new hardware, like the PCEngines APU2.
- Jonnax 6y ago
  It uses a CPU from 2014 however: https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-G-Series%20GX-412TC.html https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-G-Series%20GX-412TC....
  - vegardx 6y ago
    Yes, but it also super compact, draws very little power and it has multiple network interfaces. It's also fanless, which makes it ideal for long running set-up-and-forget scenarios that home routers typically are.
    - alrs 6y ago
      The HP T620+ is fanless, draws very little power, and has a PCIe slot so you can run multiple network interfaces. 4 cores, 25W TDP. model name : AMD GX-420CA SOC with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
      - zokier 6y ago
        So T620+ and APU2 have otherwise same CPU (quad Jaguar cores) but T620+ runs it at 2GHz/25W and APU2 at 1GHz/6W

adrian_b 6y ago

The H2, with a Gemini Lake Refresh CPU, is certainly much faster than the APU2 which somebody suggested and also much faster than any cheap ARM device that uses old ARM cores like Cortex-A72 or Cortex-A73. I think that H2 is a good choice for a router/firewall, it is faster than anything in that price range, it is silent with passive cooling and the power consumption in normal use is much less than 10 W. Being a standard PC, any Linux distribution, as well as FreeBSD, Windows or any other OS can be installed without problems. I have used in the past a few older ODROID models and I have been content with them.