4 ms·

The grammar of this headline really bugs me. The author correctly remembers that "None of us" is singular, but then spoils it by throwing in the plural "we're".

by hugh3 15y ago

The grammar of this headline really bugs me. The author correctly remembers that "None of us" is singular, but then spoils it by throwing in the plural "we're". The correct version would, I think, be "None of us knows what he's doing", although both the feminists and the languagelog folks would complain about that.

Johngibb 15y ago
How about "None of us knows what they're doing"? Hasn't it become generally accepted that 'they' can be used as a gender neutral singular pronoun?
- dvdhsu 15y ago
  "they're" refers to a party in third person, while it should refer to "us" which is in first person.
premchai21 15y ago
Are you sure about “none” being singular in that context? I agree that the title is inconsistent, but I'd have written “None of us know what we're doing” (if I couldn't just pick some other phrasing). gcide defines “none” as “No one; not one; not anything; – frequently used also partitively, or as a plural, not any.” and also offers “None of their productions are extant. –Blair”, both purportedly from 1913 Webster. So it seems that the pronoun can be interpreted in either number as needed.
- dvdhsu 15y ago
  Yep, "none" is not always singular. For example: "None of them are coming today" instead of "none of them is coming today". It is generally considered unidiomatic to use the latter.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    No, the former is wrong (and sounds very wrong to me) regardless of how frequently misused it is. "None" == "Not one", and therefore singular.
jacobolus 15y ago
From the New Oxford American Dictionary: “USAGE It is sometimes held that none can take only a singular verb, never a plural verb: : none of them is coming tonight, rather than : none of them are coming tonight. There is little justification, historical or grammatical, for this view. None is descended from Old English nān, meaning ‘not one,’ and has been used for around a thousand years with both a singular and a plural verb, depending on the context and the emphasis needed.” You’re right though that it’s weird to mix both singular and plural verbs for the same subject.
tomjen3 15y ago
Does this matter? Just let it slide, otherwise.

by hugh3 15y ago

Johngibb 15y ago

How about "None of us knows what they're doing"? Hasn't it become generally accepted that 'they' can be used as a gender neutral singular pronoun?

dvdhsu 15y ago
"they're" refers to a party in third person, while it should refer to "us" which is in first person.

premchai21 15y ago

Are you sure about “none” being singular in that context? I agree that the title is inconsistent, but I'd have written “None of us know what we're doing” (if I couldn't just pick some other phrasing). gcide defines “none” as “No one; not one; not anything; – frequently used also partitively, or as a plural, not any.” and also offers “None of their productions are extant. –Blair”, both purportedly from 1913 Webster. So it seems that the pronoun can be interpreted in either number as needed.

dvdhsu 15y ago
Yep, "none" is not always singular. For example: "None of them are coming today" instead of "none of them is coming today". It is generally considered unidiomatic to use the latter.
- hugh3 15y ago
  No, the former is wrong (and sounds very wrong to me) regardless of how frequently misused it is. "None" == "Not one", and therefore singular.

jacobolus 15y ago

From the New Oxford American Dictionary: “USAGE It is sometimes held that none can take only a singular verb, never a plural verb: : none of them is coming tonight, rather than : none of them are coming tonight. There is little justification, historical or grammatical, for this view. None is descended from Old English nān, meaning ‘not one,’ and has been used for around a thousand years with both a singular and a plural verb, depending on the context and the emphasis needed.” You’re right though that it’s weird to mix both singular and plural verbs for the same subject.

tomjen3 15y ago

Does this matter? Just let it slide, otherwise.