5 ms·

Doesn't the EU already have very high tarriffs on a lot of things imported from the US? Cars for example?

by jsight 6y ago

csomar 6y ago
I mean this is something people from both sides can agree with Trump on. The world has been taking the USA for a ride when it comes to trade. The EU is really defensive , and will protect its industry above else. It does also bully smaller countries (like Tunisia, stop illegal immigration or we reduce trade, etc...); but the US gets most of the bad press.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > The world has been taking the USA for a ride when it comes to trade This is a function of our China policy and insistence on maintaining the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.
volta87 6y ago
I recall that when Trump started taxing European steel, the EU looked for companies in Republican states that were seen positively by Trump supporters and sniped them with extremely specific tariffs. Harley Davidson was one of these companies. They weren't doing well before they got caught in the middle of this trade war, since the "biker" culture it aimed at was shrinking globally, so in a move to survive they decided to move production to South America. Turns out their audience didn't like this move, and its death accelerated. TL;DR: Trump put a tax on European steel, and the EU snipped Harley Davidson in retaliation.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Trade wars do tend to be bad for everyone involved. Like rent control, it's very hard to find any economist that will even support it.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  HD was on deaths door anyway even without Trump. They've been playing financial games with production for the past 20 years and their core customers are aging out.
  - volta87 6y ago
    Agreed. The EU tariffs just accelerated HD's decline, but HD dig their own grave long time ago. HD decision of focusing their brand on a "hardcore biker" culture that has failed (and arguably even alienated) younger customers is what killed the company. All customers age, but what HD has failed to do is attract new customers at a faster rate than the death rate of their current customers.
- echelon 6y ago
  > killed Harley Davidson in retaliation Their stock price (even over five years) doesn't appear to reflect this.
  - volta87 6y ago
    That's because the company started dying longer ago. Their stock price today is around 30$. In the early 2000s it was around 90$. Also, like the other comment mentioned, HD has been playing a lot of financial tricks over the last 20 years to prevent the stock price from declining (e.g. buy backs to artificially inflate stock price, take a look at the number of outstanding shares: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/HOG/harley-davidson/shares-outstanding https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/HOG/harley-davidso... , a reduction from 280 million to 150 million in the 2005-2019 time period). EDIT: I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY for a summary.
Ceezy 6y ago
Nobody is trying to buy a Ford...
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Huh? Ford has a reasonable market share in the EU. They sell a little under a million units a year there. https://www.statista.com/statistics/642946/eu-ford-car-sales/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/642946/eu-ford-car-sales...
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I suspect most Fords sold in the EU are manufactured in the EU or its former member state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe
    - paganel 6y ago
      Correct, I think only the Mustang, the Ranger and Edge are imported from the US, nice vehicles (especially the Mustang the Ranger) but which don't sell that much in absolute numbers. The rest of their line-up is I think produced in Europe.
      - mywittyname 6y ago
        Most of Ford's car lineup, even in the US, was designed in the EU (fiesta, focus) or in collaboration with Mazda (fusion). Cars like the Taurus/500/Montego/MKS evolved from Volvo platforms. Ford is pretty heavily involved in Europe. Cars are bigger in Europe, so Ford cars tend to be developed there, while trucks and SUVs are bigger in America, so design of these vehicles is largely done in America.
    - jsight 6y ago
      And the EU tariffs are a part of the reason for that, though perhaps not the main reason.
  - reallydontask 6y ago

Doesn't the EU already have very high tarriffs on a lot of things imported from the US? Cars for example?

by jsight 6y ago

Doesn't the EU already have very high tarriffs on a lot of things imported from the US? Cars for example?

I mean this is something people from both sides can agree with Trump on. The world has been taking the USA for a ride when it comes to trade. The EU is really defensive , and will protect its industry above else. It does also bully smaller countries (like Tunisia, stop illegal immigration or we reduce trade, etc...); but the US gets most of the bad press.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> The world has been taking the USA for a ride when it comes to trade This is a function of our China policy and insistence on maintaining the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

volta87 6y ago

I recall that when Trump started taxing European steel, the EU looked for companies in Republican states that were seen positively by Trump supporters and sniped them with extremely specific tariffs. Harley Davidson was one of these companies. They weren't doing well before they got caught in the middle of this trade war, since the "biker" culture it aimed at was shrinking globally, so in a move to survive they decided to move production to South America. Turns out their audience didn't like this move, and its death accelerated. TL;DR: Trump put a tax on European steel, and the EU snipped Harley Davidson in retaliation.

CydeWeys 6y ago
Trade wars do tend to be bad for everyone involved. Like rent control, it's very hard to find any economist that will even support it.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
HD was on deaths door anyway even without Trump. They've been playing financial games with production for the past 20 years and their core customers are aging out.
- volta87 6y ago
  Agreed. The EU tariffs just accelerated HD's decline, but HD dig their own grave long time ago. HD decision of focusing their brand on a "hardcore biker" culture that has failed (and arguably even alienated) younger customers is what killed the company. All customers age, but what HD has failed to do is attract new customers at a faster rate than the death rate of their current customers.
echelon 6y ago
> killed Harley Davidson in retaliation Their stock price (even over five years) doesn't appear to reflect this.
- volta87 6y ago
  That's because the company started dying longer ago. Their stock price today is around 30$. In the early 2000s it was around 90$. Also, like the other comment mentioned, HD has been playing a lot of financial tricks over the last 20 years to prevent the stock price from declining (e.g. buy backs to artificially inflate stock price, take a look at the number of outstanding shares: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/HOG/harley-davidson/shares-outstanding https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/HOG/harley-davidso... , a reduction from 280 million to 150 million in the 2005-2019 time period). EDIT: I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY for a summary.

Ceezy 6y ago

Nobody is trying to buy a Ford...

missedthecue 6y ago
Huh? Ford has a reasonable market share in the EU. They sell a little under a million units a year there. https://www.statista.com/statistics/642946/eu-ford-car-sales/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/642946/eu-ford-car-sales...
- arethuza 6y ago
  I suspect most Fords sold in the EU are manufactured in the EU or its former member state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe
  - paganel 6y ago
    Correct, I think only the Mustang, the Ranger and Edge are imported from the US, nice vehicles (especially the Mustang the Ranger) but which don't sell that much in absolute numbers. The rest of their line-up is I think produced in Europe.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      Most of Ford's car lineup, even in the US, was designed in the EU (fiesta, focus) or in collaboration with Mazda (fusion). Cars like the Taurus/500/Montego/MKS evolved from Volvo platforms. Ford is pretty heavily involved in Europe. Cars are bigger in Europe, so Ford cars tend to be developed there, while trucks and SUVs are bigger in America, so design of these vehicles is largely done in America.
  - jsight 6y ago
    And the EU tariffs are a part of the reason for that, though perhaps not the main reason.
- reallydontask 6y ago