4 ms·

RubyGems: Nerd rage is optional (and discouraged)

36 points by telemachos 15y ago

jarin 15y ago
Summary: people who maintain popular projects can sometimes be jerks because of all of the pressure; it is not an excuse to be a jerk when submitting tickets and/or patches. This is why I try to submit patches instead of tickets whenever possible. When I can't quite wrap my head around the fix when submitting a ticket, I ask if anyone can point me in the right direction so I can at least try to help fix it.
- ericb 15y ago
  With few exceptions, I categorically deny the existence of any entitlement to be a jerk. By entitlement, I specifically mean justifications like "well, I was under a lot of pressure." There's always a "reason" one can give for being a jerk.
  - sandal 15y ago
    You're absolutely right. And to clarify, my article is not in any way meant to claim that the way that the RubyGems maintainers are acting is justified. Instead, I'm just trying to make the point that their experience with end users is not exactly full of ponies and rainbows, and if you act like a jerk to a maintainer, you should not expect civility in response. Users of RubyGems who proactively act rudely to the maintainers in the expectation that they will be treated rudely are only making things worse. I think in the very worst case, that the idea that RubyGems is under some sort of tyrannical rule would seem less incredulous if contributors and users would at least try being civil first. Those that don't are simply poking at a sore wound.
nikz 15y ago
Obviously it would be nice not to be rude to people who, after all, are working on something that benefits you, if you are prepared to call other people out like this: http://rubyhitsquad.com/Ruby_Hit_Squad.html http://rubyhitsquad.com/Ruby_Hit_Squad.html Then I believe you should probably have a thicker skin in return.
- sandal 15y ago
  That was a long time ago.
  - binspace 15y ago
    He annotated a passive-aggressive annotation on a patch I made and basically hijacked a presentation I made because the library I presented did not fit his aesthetics & work style. I don't remember ever acting in an uncivil way toward him. If you regularly act like an asshole, expect to get a reputation and to be treated like one (even unfairly). Btw, I'm glad you are bringing civility up. For some reason the lack of a civil vibe (at least from my experience in the Ruby community) really bothers me.
    - Argorak 15y ago
      I want to oppose to the impression that there is a lack of civil vibe within the ruby community. I work on the Padrino project and most of the communication with the ruby community, our committers and our users is highly enjoyable. Jerks can be found everywhere, but they are a minority.
    - sandal 15y ago
      It really depends on what projects and groups of people you're interacting with. We have a wonderful community around Ruby Mendicant University, but it's because the folks there really care about teaching and learning as a primary goal, so they self-select towards being friendly. Ruby isn't really a community anymore, it's an ecosystem. So if the current neighborhoods you're hanging out in don't seem too friendly, look for other ones. Different projects and organizations have different culture, and even if the union of all of those distinct groups is on a downward trend, there are still new and old groups that are going strong who are nice and helpful.
danneu 15y ago
To be fair, the deprecation message spam is a downright failure. Fortunately, RubyGems reverts to its previous version really easily.
christkv 15y ago
Just be civil and nice when you have a problem. I think most maintainers actually don't mind people but when you get a constant barrage of demands for functionality or people telling you that you suck because your project don't quite measure up to their standards I can see how people can get to the point where they lash out. Most open source project are after all a hobby or pastime for people and it's important to remember that before ragging on someone. Civility is key in all human interaction.

36 points by telemachos 15y ago

jarin 15y ago

Summary: people who maintain popular projects can sometimes be jerks because of all of the pressure; it is not an excuse to be a jerk when submitting tickets and/or patches. This is why I try to submit patches instead of tickets whenever possible. When I can't quite wrap my head around the fix when submitting a ticket, I ask if anyone can point me in the right direction so I can at least try to help fix it.

ericb 15y ago
With few exceptions, I categorically deny the existence of any entitlement to be a jerk. By entitlement, I specifically mean justifications like "well, I was under a lot of pressure." There's always a "reason" one can give for being a jerk.
- sandal 15y ago
  You're absolutely right. And to clarify, my article is not in any way meant to claim that the way that the RubyGems maintainers are acting is justified. Instead, I'm just trying to make the point that their experience with end users is not exactly full of ponies and rainbows, and if you act like a jerk to a maintainer, you should not expect civility in response. Users of RubyGems who proactively act rudely to the maintainers in the expectation that they will be treated rudely are only making things worse. I think in the very worst case, that the idea that RubyGems is under some sort of tyrannical rule would seem less incredulous if contributors and users would at least try being civil first. Those that don't are simply poking at a sore wound.

nikz 15y ago

Obviously it would be nice not to be rude to people who, after all, are working on something that benefits you, if you are prepared to call other people out like this: http://rubyhitsquad.com/Ruby_Hit_Squad.html http://rubyhitsquad.com/Ruby_Hit_Squad.html Then I believe you should probably have a thicker skin in return.

sandal 15y ago
That was a long time ago.
- binspace 15y ago
  He annotated a passive-aggressive annotation on a patch I made and basically hijacked a presentation I made because the library I presented did not fit his aesthetics & work style. I don't remember ever acting in an uncivil way toward him. If you regularly act like an asshole, expect to get a reputation and to be treated like one (even unfairly). Btw, I'm glad you are bringing civility up. For some reason the lack of a civil vibe (at least from my experience in the Ruby community) really bothers me.
  - Argorak 15y ago
    I want to oppose to the impression that there is a lack of civil vibe within the ruby community. I work on the Padrino project and most of the communication with the ruby community, our committers and our users is highly enjoyable. Jerks can be found everywhere, but they are a minority.
  - sandal 15y ago
    It really depends on what projects and groups of people you're interacting with. We have a wonderful community around Ruby Mendicant University, but it's because the folks there really care about teaching and learning as a primary goal, so they self-select towards being friendly. Ruby isn't really a community anymore, it's an ecosystem. So if the current neighborhoods you're hanging out in don't seem too friendly, look for other ones. Different projects and organizations have different culture, and even if the union of all of those distinct groups is on a downward trend, there are still new and old groups that are going strong who are nice and helpful.

danneu 15y ago

To be fair, the deprecation message spam is a downright failure. Fortunately, RubyGems reverts to its previous version really easily.

christkv 15y ago

Just be civil and nice when you have a problem. I think most maintainers actually don't mind people but when you get a constant barrage of demands for functionality or people telling you that you suck because your project don't quite measure up to their standards I can see how people can get to the point where they lash out. Most open source project are after all a hobby or pastime for people and it's important to remember that before ragging on someone. Civility is key in all human interaction.