3 ms·

None of those are really full time roles, especially the PM. Maybe 2 FTEs if they're not automating their own job as they go. IncRev also has an office in Banga

by feoren 6y ago

None of those are really full time roles, especially the PM. Maybe 2 FTEs if they're not automating their own job as they go. IncRev also has an office in Bangalore where I'd assume a lot of that low-level stuff gets done, so your estimate of ~$225/hr, which is already too high for the U.S. average (but maybe not SV), could easily be too high by a factor of 3. And I doubt IncRev is really doing the report development, but maybe. So I'd guess you're off by a factor of 6 and Thernaos was just getting fleeced.

kube-system 6y ago
That entirely depends on the business environment. If they're allowed to work remote and the client is easy to work with, then it's not a full time job. If a client wants work to be on-site, demands a large number of meetings, and/or a lot of hoops to jump through, then that can quickly change. I've seen some business environments that expect consultant developers to attend 6 hours of meetings per day. Some companies hire consultants precisely because their internal politics are so bad that they're unable to get the work done themselves. I don't know anything about these companies at hand here, but I wouldn't scoff at these numbers alone.
jasonv 6y ago
SV consulting companies charge way more than $225/hr and still employ local talent even if they have staff in other countries. I say this having been a consultant.
- feoren 6y ago
  If SV consultants charge more than $225/hr then nobody should hire them. I'm on a team of damn good full-stack developers and the most senior ones (10-15 years) bill out around $150/hr. I guarantee you we're better than most SV consultants at what we do (though we are a small team). I'm in the US, but not SV, so that must make the difference, but people are really stupid to be over-paying by "way more" than 50% for quality that I guarantee is no better than average.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    There are consultants in the midwest charging $225/hr. The price that a consulting company can demand is only tangentially determined by the quality of the developers they have. The people actually hiring these consultants usually don't care much about the skills of the individual developers. They're concerned mainly about resolving the issues that led them to hire those consultants in the first place. These often include things like: 1. Timeline. Can this consultant start work immediately? Do they have expertise in my tech stack, my industry, my regulatory environment, my particular business problem? 2. Politics. Does this consultant have sufficient reputation that I can use it as leverage in my internal business politics? Can this consultant navigate my company's business politics in order to further my business agenda? Can they produce the strategic documents/guidance to help me support my business goals? 3. Flexibility. Will this consultant work under terms that work for me? Will they put a consultant on a plane Monday? Or will they work remote? Are they willing to adjust the contract to meet a level of risk I find acceptable? The process of choosing a consultant is mostly a business transaction between business professionals. The director of ACME's marketing department is typically in no position to evaluate the resumes of the proposed consulting development team. They're interested in getting their project done on time and on budget while minimizing risk. They're not stupid, they just have a wildly broader set of concerns than code quality.
sjg007 6y ago
You are effectively getting 4 independent services for the price of one FTE.

by feoren 6y ago

kube-system 6y ago

That entirely depends on the business environment. If they're allowed to work remote and the client is easy to work with, then it's not a full time job. If a client wants work to be on-site, demands a large number of meetings, and/or a lot of hoops to jump through, then that can quickly change. I've seen some business environments that expect consultant developers to attend 6 hours of meetings per day. Some companies hire consultants precisely because their internal politics are so bad that they're unable to get the work done themselves. I don't know anything about these companies at hand here, but I wouldn't scoff at these numbers alone.

jasonv 6y ago

SV consulting companies charge way more than $225/hr and still employ local talent even if they have staff in other countries. I say this having been a consultant.

feoren 6y ago
If SV consultants charge more than $225/hr then nobody should hire them. I'm on a team of damn good full-stack developers and the most senior ones (10-15 years) bill out around $150/hr. I guarantee you we're better than most SV consultants at what we do (though we are a small team). I'm in the US, but not SV, so that must make the difference, but people are really stupid to be over-paying by "way more" than 50% for quality that I guarantee is no better than average.
- kube-system 6y ago
  There are consultants in the midwest charging $225/hr. The price that a consulting company can demand is only tangentially determined by the quality of the developers they have. The people actually hiring these consultants usually don't care much about the skills of the individual developers. They're concerned mainly about resolving the issues that led them to hire those consultants in the first place. These often include things like: 1. Timeline. Can this consultant start work immediately? Do they have expertise in my tech stack, my industry, my regulatory environment, my particular business problem? 2. Politics. Does this consultant have sufficient reputation that I can use it as leverage in my internal business politics? Can this consultant navigate my company's business politics in order to further my business agenda? Can they produce the strategic documents/guidance to help me support my business goals? 3. Flexibility. Will this consultant work under terms that work for me? Will they put a consultant on a plane Monday? Or will they work remote? Are they willing to adjust the contract to meet a level of risk I find acceptable? The process of choosing a consultant is mostly a business transaction between business professionals. The director of ACME's marketing department is typically in no position to evaluate the resumes of the proposed consulting development team. They're interested in getting their project done on time and on budget while minimizing risk. They're not stupid, they just have a wildly broader set of concerns than code quality.

sjg007 6y ago

You are effectively getting 4 independent services for the price of one FTE.