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I think Signal should bundle a simple on-screen keyboard, similar to the way banks etc... do it. It always felt weird to me that while I trust Signal developer

I think Signal should bundle a simple on-screen keyboard, similar to the way banks etc... do it. It always felt weird to me that while I trust Signal developers, all of the text input into the app goes through an on-screen keyboard that might or might not be secure. So basically, on android, while your data doesn't go to Facebook anymore, as far as I can tell it still goes to Google via the keyboard app. Doesn't it? EDIT: It feels to me like a missing piece, but maybe I'm wrong. Please educate me if I am, it's a genuine question :)

avra 6y ago
While this does still mean you have to trust your keyboard app, you can tell Signal to trigger your keyboards incognito mode. I don't think it should include its own keyboard. But this could be an extra app in general.
legacynl 6y ago
use a different keyboard.
dan-robertson 6y ago
Signal already has problems with pissing people off by having annoying user interfaces for security reasons. This seems like a pointless measure. If you can’t trust the keyboard software installed on your phone then surely you don’t trust the os either. But if you don’t trust the os then what’s the point?
- pornel 6y ago
  It's about explaining this threat model to users. The pitch "Use Signal and your chats will be 100% secure" is not actually true in practice due to the keyboard loophole. Users who are not technical enough to understand this will get themselves in trouble. China is especially at risk due to both having oppressive censorship and a language that needs sophisticated keyboards for entering characters.
adimitrov 6y ago
If you are concerned about your privacy, you can use an OSS keyboard app. Hacker's keyboard is one for android. There are some on F-Droid. You may even prefer them to Google's offering.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  The problem is that even if you install one of those privacy-protecting keyboard apps, chances are that the person you are talking to on the other end is using the stock Google keyboard that sends what they type to Google. Even if only half of the conversation leaks that way, that is still a major blow to the privacy of both parties.
szszrk 6y ago
There is plenty of keyboards on android, including ones that are super-simple like "simple keyboard" from F-Droid, or the one provided by Keepass for Android. Just switch keyboard. There is a lot of choice here, interface to do that and so on.
dmvinson 6y ago
Naomi Wu has been talking about this for a while [0]. She lives in China, and has flagged this multiple times on Twitter, apparently without much response from the Signal team to her frustration. The issue seems to be that Signal simply sets the incognito flag when users are typing in the app, which kindly requests keyboard apps to not track the input. Unfortunately, since most American made keyboards for chinese writing are slow and difficult to use, most Chinese citizens use keyboards made by companies made in China, which does not provide much reassurance w.r.t adherence to the incognito request. Your concern seems to be spot on, and it'd be worth Signal at least making this clear to users when they first begin using the app. While the answer from most technical users will be "just switch keyboards", it's also widely accepted that defaults matter and unless Signal makes an active effort to discourage people's default choice, the larger purpose of privacy will be somewhat defeated. [0] https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1197695344575799296?s=20 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/119769534457579929...
- will4274 6y ago
  I'm not sure I follow tbh. Wu writes: > You want to write Chinese, you need an IME. Apple/Microsoft/Linux/Google all have their own IME, but they aren't very good- typing on them is SLOW. Most Chinese use [...] So, the ask is that Signal (a western company) develop a Chinese keyboard that is better than the vast majority of Chinese keyboards on the market (something Wu says is hard for western companies), and then force all Chinese users to use it, even if they prefer something else? What happens if they develop a bad one? Keyboards aren't that special here. Signal opens up links in web browsers and some users install insecure web browser (also more commonly in China than in the US). Signal runs on an operating system and some users install insecure operating systems (also more commonly in China than in the US). There's no logical stopping point here until the whole device is Signal. I think it's good for Signal to try to do one thing (encrypted communication) well, rather than trying to do everything.
Kelamir 6y ago
> So basically, on android, while your data doesn't go to Facebook anymore, as far as I can tell it still goes to Google via the keyboard app. Doesn't it? The answer is to use a keyboard that doesn't have internet permission. It's not the chat app's worry to force their keyboard on users, in my opinion.

avra 6y ago

While this does still mean you have to trust your keyboard app, you can tell Signal to trigger your keyboards incognito mode. I don't think it should include its own keyboard. But this could be an extra app in general.

legacynl 6y ago

use a different keyboard.

dan-robertson 6y ago

Signal already has problems with pissing people off by having annoying user interfaces for security reasons. This seems like a pointless measure. If you can’t trust the keyboard software installed on your phone then surely you don’t trust the os either. But if you don’t trust the os then what’s the point?

pornel 6y ago
It's about explaining this threat model to users. The pitch "Use Signal and your chats will be 100% secure" is not actually true in practice due to the keyboard loophole. Users who are not technical enough to understand this will get themselves in trouble. China is especially at risk due to both having oppressive censorship and a language that needs sophisticated keyboards for entering characters.

adimitrov 6y ago

If you are concerned about your privacy, you can use an OSS keyboard app. Hacker's keyboard is one for android. There are some on F-Droid. You may even prefer them to Google's offering.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
The problem is that even if you install one of those privacy-protecting keyboard apps, chances are that the person you are talking to on the other end is using the stock Google keyboard that sends what they type to Google. Even if only half of the conversation leaks that way, that is still a major blow to the privacy of both parties.

szszrk 6y ago

There is plenty of keyboards on android, including ones that are super-simple like "simple keyboard" from F-Droid, or the one provided by Keepass for Android. Just switch keyboard. There is a lot of choice here, interface to do that and so on.

dmvinson 6y ago

Naomi Wu has been talking about this for a while [0]. She lives in China, and has flagged this multiple times on Twitter, apparently without much response from the Signal team to her frustration. The issue seems to be that Signal simply sets the incognito flag when users are typing in the app, which kindly requests keyboard apps to not track the input. Unfortunately, since most American made keyboards for chinese writing are slow and difficult to use, most Chinese citizens use keyboards made by companies made in China, which does not provide much reassurance w.r.t adherence to the incognito request. Your concern seems to be spot on, and it'd be worth Signal at least making this clear to users when they first begin using the app. While the answer from most technical users will be "just switch keyboards", it's also widely accepted that defaults matter and unless Signal makes an active effort to discourage people's default choice, the larger purpose of privacy will be somewhat defeated. [0] https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1197695344575799296?s=20 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/119769534457579929...

will4274 6y ago
I'm not sure I follow tbh. Wu writes: > You want to write Chinese, you need an IME. Apple/Microsoft/Linux/Google all have their own IME, but they aren't very good- typing on them is SLOW. Most Chinese use [...] So, the ask is that Signal (a western company) develop a Chinese keyboard that is better than the vast majority of Chinese keyboards on the market (something Wu says is hard for western companies), and then force all Chinese users to use it, even if they prefer something else? What happens if they develop a bad one? Keyboards aren't that special here. Signal opens up links in web browsers and some users install insecure web browser (also more commonly in China than in the US). Signal runs on an operating system and some users install insecure operating systems (also more commonly in China than in the US). There's no logical stopping point here until the whole device is Signal. I think it's good for Signal to try to do one thing (encrypted communication) well, rather than trying to do everything.

Kelamir 6y ago

> So basically, on android, while your data doesn't go to Facebook anymore, as far as I can tell it still goes to Google via the keyboard app. Doesn't it? The answer is to use a keyboard that doesn't have internet permission. It's not the chat app's worry to force their keyboard on users, in my opinion.