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We were not talking about whether the Muslim world appreciated Greek thought, we were talking about how much the Muslim world preserved Greek works otherwise un

We were not talking about whether the Muslim world appreciated Greek thought, we were talking about how much the Muslim world preserved Greek works otherwise unavailable. Regardless of your boasting of Muslim scholarship, many more Greek works have come down to use in manuscripts copied down in the Christian world. It is only a comparatively few works that we must credit the Muslim world with preserving. Again, go look at the manuscript sources for all those OCT and Teubner editions.

teleforce 6y ago
Please check this article on the Benedict abbot or Peter the Venerable who was during his time in charged of more than 600 monasteries [1]. In the article it's mentioned that he summoned the monks to not only translate Arabic works he found in Toledo to Latin, but also Arabic translations of otherwise lost classical Greek texts. If this not the proof of Muslim Empire and scholars greatly help preserving Greek texts then I don't know what is. As you probably know that the renaissance era was started from the fall of Toledo into the Spaniard's hands. Just for the sake of arguments, even if the Cristian world have most of their copies, are having the back up copies by the Muslim world really help preserving the books when there was no Google Drive around? At least we probably can agree that these Muslim scholars were not only appreciating but they were also cherishing the Greek books just like we are cherishing the PlayStation 5 not only appreciating it. For them it is part of their religious duty to contribute and spread the knowledge regardless they were from India, China or Greek. You need to understand that these scholars not only preserved the book but they cherished them. It's given fact that you only keep what you value and cherish, and by nature human are selective hoarders. Without the ransack of Baghdad by the Mongol where the rivers turned blue/black by the ink of the thrown and demolished books it's probably not an exaggeration to say that we probably living in Mars by now. The fact that the lesser backup copies in Toledo, Spain that fell into the European hands essentially initiated the knowledge revolutions or renaissance as they called it today. [1]https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/12/27/these-are-monks-who-still-preserve-ancient-texts-around-world https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/12/27/these-are-m...
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  I am sorry, but you appear to lack any training in the field of Greek and Latin manuscript studies, and your posts here abound in oversimplification and urban myths about the Medieval era and the Renaissance. Again, instead of linking to pop-sci articles, and a JSTOR publication which does not actually bear on the present discussion, please consult an actual university library and go through the manuscript sources of editions of Greek and Latin writers to see how little a role the Muslim world has played in transmission of classical authors. While you might be very proud that the Muslim world preserved (a very few) Greek and Latin sources that were also held by the Christian world, that is irrelevant to the discussion launched by the OP.
  - teleforce 6y ago
    Yes I'm no a scholar in Greek and Latin manuscript but I doubt that you are more of a scholar than Dr. Columba Stewart the author of the allegedly "pop-science article" that I have referenced and provided you. He is not only a Benedictine monk, he is also a very reputable scholar and has been an executive director of the Hill Museum and Manuscript library since 2003 that has Harvard, Yale and Oxford University as his alma mater. Heck, I cannot even think of anybody else that has more credential than him in the Greek and Latin manuscripts as being maintained by the monasteries [1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columba_Stewart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columba_Stewart
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      Did you even read the Columba Stewart article you linked to? The author speaks about precious manuscripts in general held outside Europe, that is, not just Latin and Greek works transmitted exclusively in the Muslim world (which certainly exist, but are comparatively few) but the Muslim world’s own works. The article is therefore not relevant to the OP’s claim that started this subthread, and your boasting about the Muslim world’s erudition is off-topic here. Even Columba Stewart would agree, like the rest of scholars engaged in matters of textual transmission, that the great majority of Latin and Greek writers that have come down to us today, came down through manuscript traditions in the Christian world, and the Muslim world has contributed only in a few cases.

teleforce 6y ago

Please check this article on the Benedict abbot or Peter the Venerable who was during his time in charged of more than 600 monasteries [1]. In the article it's mentioned that he summoned the monks to not only translate Arabic works he found in Toledo to Latin, but also Arabic translations of otherwise lost classical Greek texts. If this not the proof of Muslim Empire and scholars greatly help preserving Greek texts then I don't know what is. As you probably know that the renaissance era was started from the fall of Toledo into the Spaniard's hands. Just for the sake of arguments, even if the Cristian world have most of their copies, are having the back up copies by the Muslim world really help preserving the books when there was no Google Drive around? At least we probably can agree that these Muslim scholars were not only appreciating but they were also cherishing the Greek books just like we are cherishing the PlayStation 5 not only appreciating it. For them it is part of their religious duty to contribute and spread the knowledge regardless they were from India, China or Greek. You need to understand that these scholars not only preserved the book but they cherished them. It's given fact that you only keep what you value and cherish, and by nature human are selective hoarders. Without the ransack of Baghdad by the Mongol where the rivers turned blue/black by the ink of the thrown and demolished books it's probably not an exaggeration to say that we probably living in Mars by now. The fact that the lesser backup copies in Toledo, Spain that fell into the European hands essentially initiated the knowledge revolutions or renaissance as they called it today. [1]https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/12/27/these-are-monks-who-still-preserve-ancient-texts-around-world https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/12/27/these-are-m...

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
I am sorry, but you appear to lack any training in the field of Greek and Latin manuscript studies, and your posts here abound in oversimplification and urban myths about the Medieval era and the Renaissance. Again, instead of linking to pop-sci articles, and a JSTOR publication which does not actually bear on the present discussion, please consult an actual university library and go through the manuscript sources of editions of Greek and Latin writers to see how little a role the Muslim world has played in transmission of classical authors. While you might be very proud that the Muslim world preserved (a very few) Greek and Latin sources that were also held by the Christian world, that is irrelevant to the discussion launched by the OP.
- teleforce 6y ago
  Yes I'm no a scholar in Greek and Latin manuscript but I doubt that you are more of a scholar than Dr. Columba Stewart the author of the allegedly "pop-science article" that I have referenced and provided you. He is not only a Benedictine monk, he is also a very reputable scholar and has been an executive director of the Hill Museum and Manuscript library since 2003 that has Harvard, Yale and Oxford University as his alma mater. Heck, I cannot even think of anybody else that has more credential than him in the Greek and Latin manuscripts as being maintained by the monasteries [1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columba_Stewart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columba_Stewart
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Did you even read the Columba Stewart article you linked to? The author speaks about precious manuscripts in general held outside Europe, that is, not just Latin and Greek works transmitted exclusively in the Muslim world (which certainly exist, but are comparatively few) but the Muslim world’s own works. The article is therefore not relevant to the OP’s claim that started this subthread, and your boasting about the Muslim world’s erudition is off-topic here. Even Columba Stewart would agree, like the rest of scholars engaged in matters of textual transmission, that the great majority of Latin and Greek writers that have come down to us today, came down through manuscript traditions in the Christian world, and the Muslim world has contributed only in a few cases.