5 ms·

The State of FOSS in India

116 points by Garbage 6y ago

smlckz 6y ago
>> Inception of FOSS [1886-1978] What happened in 1886?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- 8ytecoder 6y ago
  Click on the link.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  You can in fact click on those boxes. When I did, it pointed to the 1886 Berne Convention as the first FOSS movement (?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
  - 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
    What does this help to Foss in India?
  - chmod775 6y ago
    The Berne Convention is about as opposed to a FOSS movement as you could get. The Berne Convention is what necessitated one in the first place.
    - ignoramous 6y ago
      Isn't the Berne Convention about copyright? FOSS isn't necessarily at odds with it? The 1886 Berne Convention did introduce the concept of public domain and fair use, however; and that, in spirit, counts towards inspiring FOSS, I guess?
      - chmod775 6y ago
        > The 1886 Berne Convention did introduce the concept of public domain and fair use It did not. I have no clue what gave you this idea. It's like saying that slavery introduced the concept of free men. The Berne Convention did not consider concepts such as 'fair use' at all, in fact some argue 'fair use' violates the Berne Convention. Further, public domain is a term for works whose protections under the Berne Convention expired.
smlckz 6y ago
> ''Think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer'' < ''Muft nehi, Mukt''
- 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  Firangi nahi samje ge. Shudh agrezi ka upiyog karein
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    That’s why there’s an English version that provides the spirit of the quote?
    - 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
      and there comes the downvotes. don't people understand implicit /s
      - majjgepolja 6y ago
        It was offensive, so..
- isatty 6y ago
  Translation?
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    not free, freedom
  - yati 6y ago
    मुफ़्त (muft) means free of cost, मुक्त (mukt) is free as in freedom. मुफ़्त नहीं। मुक्त (muft nehi, mukt) reads like "not free (of charge), but free as in freedom."
  - smlckz 6y ago
    muft = gratis, ''free as in beer'', mukt = open, ''free as in freedom''
jbgreer 6y ago
Pleased to see the report reference my late acquaintance, Atul Chitnis, and his work in fostering Free Software in India. I connected with Atul during a business trip to Bangalore in the mid-90s. He ended up arranging a dinner at a nearby pub with a contingent of the a Linux User Group. We ended up shutting the place down, talking late into the night. Periodically I reached out to catch up with him and share his enthusiasm.
- shankysingh 6y ago
  I started my career with Geodesic, handheld division, which @atul was overlooking as VP , IIRC . Was really a great experience interacting with him and other stalwarts of FOSS at thats time. I owe my first job to him and Pradeepto :)
ignoramous 6y ago
Hasura [0], Postman [1], and ERPNext [2] are leading the FOSS charge from India. In ERPNext's case, they remained bootstrapped for 10 years (seed investment from rainmatter.in in Nov 2020) despite having to compete with SAP. See also: https://github.com/collections/made-in-india https://github.com/collections/made-in-india [0] https://github.com/hasura/graphql-engine https://github.com/hasura/graphql-engine [1] https://github.com/postmanlabs/newman https://github.com/postmanlabs/newman [2] https://github.com/frappe/erpnext https://github.com/frappe/erpnext
- pdevr 6y ago
  A huge vote for Postman. Used it a few years back. Was an awesome tool. Hope it still is.
- pkd 6y ago
  Also Julia I think?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - fellellor 6y ago
    IIRC Julia team is based in one of the California universities, unlike Postman, whose headquarters are in India.
- cambalache 6y ago
  Thanks for letting me know about EPRnext (I suppose they are well known, but hey my bandwidth is pretty limited). I really like the idea (although I dont like the DB choice or the framework), I will still poke around
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  I didn't have a good experience with ERPNext. It is neutered and using it is painful to use unless you pay for professional help. They bundle everything in a virtual machine file (!!) and not standard Docker containers. The whole thing is horribly put together. I spent half a day trying to get it up and running and it was a nightmare. ERPs and MRPs are in a weird uncanny valley. 99% of the audience that need to use it are not programmers. Open sourcing is nice but largely only helpful to people that are going to forkit and improve it, not end users. Also, ERP is the brains of your business. If it goes down and has problems, your business comes to a halt. It needs to be rock solid and most businesses don't want to deal with this type of thing - happy to pay $300/month for small business ERP from Oracle, SAP, Microsoft or other platforms. I am complaining but its better than nothing, the fact that theyve put their code out for free is commendable.
tumblewit 6y ago
I appreciate that Android is widely adopted in India, a free and open source operating system but the amount of data being collected is simply too much thanks to oems installing their own software on top of it. That and the fact that due to data being very cheap most users will install all kinds of software that again collects data. Privacy laws in India are non-existent. FOSS doesn't solve that unless FOSS from private companies is also audited and the data being collected is clearly explained to the consumers and they are made aware of it.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  > Privacy laws in India are non-existent. FOSS doesn't solve that unless FOSS from private companies is also audited and the data being collected is clearly explained to the consumers and they are made aware of it. Participate / Contribute: https://internetfreedom.in/ https://internetfreedom.in/
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
  > I appreciate that Android is widely adopted in India, a free and open source operating system but the amount of data being collected is simply too much thanks to oems installing their own software on top of it. This is because most people in India are buying androids because they are inexpensive, not because they are open source. Most of the people in India I have talked too, actually aspire for an Apple iPhone but can’t get one because it is too expensive.
- Ayesh 6y ago
  Because it is cheaper, and Xiaomi, Oppo, and a few other manufacturers dominate the market there. Xiaomi in particular has a massive market, to a point that they release some India-specofoc models too. I also read that in India, iPhones have a bigger markup to a point that it is cheaper to fly to Dubai, buy an iPhone, and fly back. I don't think Xiaomi market had any noticeable impact even with India and China at their throats.
azifali 6y ago
We're building a KubeArmor - a container-aware runtime security enforcement system n using LSMs - between India, Korea and the US https://github.com/accuknox/kubearmor https://github.com/accuknox/kubearmor
eznzt 6y ago
The design of the website makes it very confusing to read and understand.
john2010 6y ago
The sad state is that even the most employees of Tech companies from India - >SWITCH (all different companies acronyms) just are not aware of OSS. Even now from UK, when I spoke to my sister (an amazing java programmer in TCS - graduated out of a top uni in Bangalore) about Signal(app) she was surprised, remarking what is the problem with WhatsApp? who cares about OSS? Like the gaming T-shirts in DO hacktoberfest https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24658052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24658052 they are constantly looking to see if I can make a buck. Contributing free is something that will need generosity - only after they get rid of some amount of poverty and improve their economic levels. There was some hope when XDA and Android ROM tended to explode in India, but it is a bit lost. Most ROM-groups locked up asking for PayTM money (equiv. of paypal) for even seeing your github repo. (Think it was a bad thing github gave free private repos - after MS acquisition). (PS: I am from India)
- majjgepolja 6y ago
  I am from India. can agree that there is large amount of people who are there just to game the system, and not in it for passion. This is because our country is 3rd world and there is lot of importance for social mobility, lot of interestless ppl enter the field. But do not lose hope yet. In every college that teaches CS you will find one or two people who are actually passionate and talented. The thing is you dont find these people in bloated-management shitty consultancies, but either in foreign companies or sometimes in startup-like Indian companies.
koolhead17 6y ago
Not sure why people are unhappy with ERPNext, the folks have been working hard. It is great to see how they have been contributing to the community with list of softwares and plugins. Being in a business for a decade and competing with the likes of Oracle, SAP and Microsoft is not easy. Show some love and be part of their community, contribute and make it better for everyone. Cribbing is not the solution but contributing is. :)

116 points by Garbage 6y ago

smlckz 6y ago

>> Inception of FOSS [1886-1978] What happened in 1886?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
8ytecoder 6y ago
Click on the link.
ignoramous 6y ago
You can in fact click on those boxes. When I did, it pointed to the 1886 Berne Convention as the first FOSS movement (?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
- 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  What does this help to Foss in India?
- chmod775 6y ago
  The Berne Convention is about as opposed to a FOSS movement as you could get. The Berne Convention is what necessitated one in the first place.
  - ignoramous 6y ago
    Isn't the Berne Convention about copyright? FOSS isn't necessarily at odds with it? The 1886 Berne Convention did introduce the concept of public domain and fair use, however; and that, in spirit, counts towards inspiring FOSS, I guess?
    - chmod775 6y ago
      > The 1886 Berne Convention did introduce the concept of public domain and fair use It did not. I have no clue what gave you this idea. It's like saying that slavery introduced the concept of free men. The Berne Convention did not consider concepts such as 'fair use' at all, in fact some argue 'fair use' violates the Berne Convention. Further, public domain is a term for works whose protections under the Berne Convention expired.

smlckz 6y ago

> ''Think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer'' < ''Muft nehi, Mukt''

2Gkashmiri 6y ago
Firangi nahi samje ge. Shudh agrezi ka upiyog karein
- saagarjha 6y ago
  That’s why there’s an English version that provides the spirit of the quote?
  - 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
    and there comes the downvotes. don't people understand implicit /s
    - majjgepolja 6y ago
      It was offensive, so..
isatty 6y ago
Translation?
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  not free, freedom
- yati 6y ago
  मुफ़्त (muft) means free of cost, मुक्त (mukt) is free as in freedom. मुफ़्त नहीं। मुक्त (muft nehi, mukt) reads like "not free (of charge), but free as in freedom."
- smlckz 6y ago
  muft = gratis, ''free as in beer'', mukt = open, ''free as in freedom''

jbgreer 6y ago

Pleased to see the report reference my late acquaintance, Atul Chitnis, and his work in fostering Free Software in India. I connected with Atul during a business trip to Bangalore in the mid-90s. He ended up arranging a dinner at a nearby pub with a contingent of the a Linux User Group. We ended up shutting the place down, talking late into the night. Periodically I reached out to catch up with him and share his enthusiasm.

shankysingh 6y ago
I started my career with Geodesic, handheld division, which @atul was overlooking as VP , IIRC . Was really a great experience interacting with him and other stalwarts of FOSS at thats time. I owe my first job to him and Pradeepto :)

ignoramous 6y ago

Hasura [0], Postman [1], and ERPNext [2] are leading the FOSS charge from India. In ERPNext's case, they remained bootstrapped for 10 years (seed investment from rainmatter.in in Nov 2020) despite having to compete with SAP. See also: https://github.com/collections/made-in-india https://github.com/collections/made-in-india [0] https://github.com/hasura/graphql-engine https://github.com/hasura/graphql-engine [1] https://github.com/postmanlabs/newman https://github.com/postmanlabs/newman [2] https://github.com/frappe/erpnext https://github.com/frappe/erpnext

pdevr 6y ago
A huge vote for Postman. Used it a few years back. Was an awesome tool. Hope it still is.
pkd 6y ago
Also Julia I think?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fellellor 6y ago
  IIRC Julia team is based in one of the California universities, unlike Postman, whose headquarters are in India.
cambalache 6y ago
Thanks for letting me know about EPRnext (I suppose they are well known, but hey my bandwidth is pretty limited). I really like the idea (although I dont like the DB choice or the framework), I will still poke around
systemvoltage 6y ago
I didn't have a good experience with ERPNext. It is neutered and using it is painful to use unless you pay for professional help. They bundle everything in a virtual machine file (!!) and not standard Docker containers. The whole thing is horribly put together. I spent half a day trying to get it up and running and it was a nightmare. ERPs and MRPs are in a weird uncanny valley. 99% of the audience that need to use it are not programmers. Open sourcing is nice but largely only helpful to people that are going to forkit and improve it, not end users. Also, ERP is the brains of your business. If it goes down and has problems, your business comes to a halt. It needs to be rock solid and most businesses don't want to deal with this type of thing - happy to pay $300/month for small business ERP from Oracle, SAP, Microsoft or other platforms. I am complaining but its better than nothing, the fact that theyve put their code out for free is commendable.

tumblewit 6y ago

I appreciate that Android is widely adopted in India, a free and open source operating system but the amount of data being collected is simply too much thanks to oems installing their own software on top of it. That and the fact that due to data being very cheap most users will install all kinds of software that again collects data. Privacy laws in India are non-existent. FOSS doesn't solve that unless FOSS from private companies is also audited and the data being collected is clearly explained to the consumers and they are made aware of it.

ignoramous 6y ago
> Privacy laws in India are non-existent. FOSS doesn't solve that unless FOSS from private companies is also audited and the data being collected is clearly explained to the consumers and they are made aware of it. Participate / Contribute: https://internetfreedom.in/ https://internetfreedom.in/
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
> I appreciate that Android is widely adopted in India, a free and open source operating system but the amount of data being collected is simply too much thanks to oems installing their own software on top of it. This is because most people in India are buying androids because they are inexpensive, not because they are open source. Most of the people in India I have talked too, actually aspire for an Apple iPhone but can’t get one because it is too expensive.
Ayesh 6y ago
Because it is cheaper, and Xiaomi, Oppo, and a few other manufacturers dominate the market there. Xiaomi in particular has a massive market, to a point that they release some India-specofoc models too. I also read that in India, iPhones have a bigger markup to a point that it is cheaper to fly to Dubai, buy an iPhone, and fly back. I don't think Xiaomi market had any noticeable impact even with India and China at their throats.

azifali 6y ago

We're building a KubeArmor - a container-aware runtime security enforcement system n using LSMs - between India, Korea and the US https://github.com/accuknox/kubearmor https://github.com/accuknox/kubearmor

eznzt 6y ago

The design of the website makes it very confusing to read and understand.

john2010 6y ago

The sad state is that even the most employees of Tech companies from India - >SWITCH (all different companies acronyms) just are not aware of OSS. Even now from UK, when I spoke to my sister (an amazing java programmer in TCS - graduated out of a top uni in Bangalore) about Signal(app) she was surprised, remarking what is the problem with WhatsApp? who cares about OSS? Like the gaming T-shirts in DO hacktoberfest https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24658052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24658052 they are constantly looking to see if I can make a buck. Contributing free is something that will need generosity - only after they get rid of some amount of poverty and improve their economic levels. There was some hope when XDA and Android ROM tended to explode in India, but it is a bit lost. Most ROM-groups locked up asking for PayTM money (equiv. of paypal) for even seeing your github repo. (Think it was a bad thing github gave free private repos - after MS acquisition). (PS: I am from India)

majjgepolja 6y ago
I am from India. can agree that there is large amount of people who are there just to game the system, and not in it for passion. This is because our country is 3rd world and there is lot of importance for social mobility, lot of interestless ppl enter the field. But do not lose hope yet. In every college that teaches CS you will find one or two people who are actually passionate and talented. The thing is you dont find these people in bloated-management shitty consultancies, but either in foreign companies or sometimes in startup-like Indian companies.

koolhead17 6y ago

Not sure why people are unhappy with ERPNext, the folks have been working hard. It is great to see how they have been contributing to the community with list of softwares and plugins. Being in a business for a decade and competing with the likes of Oracle, SAP and Microsoft is not easy. Show some love and be part of their community, contribute and make it better for everyone. Cribbing is not the solution but contributing is. :)