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But are these measures appropriate? Just like I criticized both the BLM movement with its violence (riots) and braindead slogans ("defund the police"), I think

by tomp 6y ago

But are these measures appropriate? Just like I criticized both the BLM movement with its violence (riots) and braindead slogans ("defund the police"), I think it's important to criticize both the right-wing rioters and the Big Tech response. None of those people, regardless of what they're fighting for (in particular if they're doing it in good faith) are using the right tactics to achieve their goals. BLM chanting "defund the police" while rioting and requiring more police? Right-wingers want their politics & cclaims of election fraud taken seriously while staging a faux-coup in clown custumes? What did they expect, the public opinion not to turn against them? These tactics are so ridiculous that I find it really hard to believe they were sincere in their intentions. Same here for Big Tech. If they wanted to prevent "inciting violence" they'd censor specific tweets, not ban Trump and Paul Ryan. But, mostly, I think the best move against further violence was increased government action, both in case of BLM (e.g. destroying CHAZ in Portland) and in case of Capitol attack (increased military presence in DC). I think (and hope) that FB&co are digging their own grave. They probably calmed Democrats for now, but they're a single scandal away from being dismanteled.

dTal 6y ago
>But, mostly, I think the best move against further violence was increased government action, both in case of BLM (e.g. destroying CHAZ in Portland) and in case of Capitol attack (increased military presence in DC). I think you're underestimating the depth of the problem. The fact that the Capitol attack got as far as it did was because factions of government intentionally did not act, or even blocked action. All of society needs to fight this, at every level; it's an existential threat.
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  Chaz was in Seattle, not Portland.
pjc50 6y ago
> Right-wingers want their politics & claims of election fraud taken seriously while staging a faux-coup in clown costumes? What did they expect, the public opinion not to turn against them? These tactics are so ridiculous that I find it really hard to believe they were sincere in their intentions. The republicans abandoned "seriousness" with their election of Donald Trump. It turned out to be unnecessary. He did all sorts of ludicrous things, down to the Four Seasons Total Landscaping conference, but those didn't actually affect his grasp on power because they were irrelevant to his supporters. The coup came surprisingly close to working. Several representatives were successfully intimidated into voting to decertify an election they knew was legitimate: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/07/majority-of-house-republicans-vote-to-reject-pennsylvania-arizona-electors/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/07/major... This time they didn't bring guns. No mass shooter, just one cop beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Nothing like the Vegas shooting. One day the mass shooters and the coup attempters will coordinate.
- tomp 6y ago
  > Several representatives were successfully intimidated into voting This is a fake fact. More republicans said they were going to vote against certifying the electoral votes before the riots. Then they changed their minds; the rioters had the opposite effect to what they wanted.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    This isn't entirely clear[0]. I'm not sure how much credence to put into this claim, but the idea that some representatives were intimidated (both before and after) isn't without merit. [0]: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gop-rep-claims-colleagues-objected-to-election-results-for-fear-their-families-would-be-harmed/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gop-rep-claims-colleague...
rubatuga 6y ago
Nitpick, defund the police means reduce the police budget, not get rid of police.
- samatman 6y ago
  "defund the police" is a string of letters, or if shouted repeatedly, sounds. It doesn't come with a pamphlet. Meaning is established inside the minds of those who see / hear it. If that meaning is consistently at odds with the intention, the fault lies with the sloganeer.
  - lambda_obrien 6y ago
    No, the fault lies with the ignorant people mischaracterizing the phrase. "Reduce police funding by a large amount, but not too large, let's face it, we need at least a few cops!" isn't as catchy for protesting. The only people who think "defund the police" means anarchy are the "braindead" ones, because they didn't even do a tiny bit of research.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Sounds like ‘repair the police’ would be more apt then

by tomp 6y ago

dTal 6y ago

>But, mostly, I think the best move against further violence was increased government action, both in case of BLM (e.g. destroying CHAZ in Portland) and in case of Capitol attack (increased military presence in DC). I think you're underestimating the depth of the problem. The fact that the Capitol attack got as far as it did was because factions of government intentionally did not act, or even blocked action. All of society needs to fight this, at every level; it's an existential threat.

Der_Einzige 6y ago
Chaz was in Seattle, not Portland.

pjc50 6y ago

> Right-wingers want their politics & claims of election fraud taken seriously while staging a faux-coup in clown costumes? What did they expect, the public opinion not to turn against them? These tactics are so ridiculous that I find it really hard to believe they were sincere in their intentions. The republicans abandoned "seriousness" with their election of Donald Trump. It turned out to be unnecessary. He did all sorts of ludicrous things, down to the Four Seasons Total Landscaping conference, but those didn't actually affect his grasp on power because they were irrelevant to his supporters. The coup came surprisingly close to working. Several representatives were successfully intimidated into voting to decertify an election they knew was legitimate: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/07/majority-of-house-republicans-vote-to-reject-pennsylvania-arizona-electors/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/07/major... This time they didn't bring guns. No mass shooter, just one cop beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Nothing like the Vegas shooting. One day the mass shooters and the coup attempters will coordinate.

tomp 6y ago
> Several representatives were successfully intimidated into voting This is a fake fact. More republicans said they were going to vote against certifying the electoral votes before the riots. Then they changed their minds; the rioters had the opposite effect to what they wanted.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  This isn't entirely clear[0]. I'm not sure how much credence to put into this claim, but the idea that some representatives were intimidated (both before and after) isn't without merit. [0]: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gop-rep-claims-colleagues-objected-to-election-results-for-fear-their-families-would-be-harmed/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gop-rep-claims-colleague...

rubatuga 6y ago

Nitpick, defund the police means reduce the police budget, not get rid of police.

samatman 6y ago
"defund the police" is a string of letters, or if shouted repeatedly, sounds. It doesn't come with a pamphlet. Meaning is established inside the minds of those who see / hear it. If that meaning is consistently at odds with the intention, the fault lies with the sloganeer.
- lambda_obrien 6y ago
  No, the fault lies with the ignorant people mischaracterizing the phrase. "Reduce police funding by a large amount, but not too large, let's face it, we need at least a few cops!" isn't as catchy for protesting. The only people who think "defund the police" means anarchy are the "braindead" ones, because they didn't even do a tiny bit of research.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Sounds like ‘repair the police’ would be more apt then