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While all these other privacy-respecting messaging alternatives are getting more attention after WhatsApp's updated privacy policy, it would be prudent to note

While all these other privacy-respecting messaging alternatives are getting more attention after WhatsApp's updated privacy policy, it would be prudent to note that most casual users will be clicking yes as soon as the new policy pops up. Sometimes it's not a case of not knowing any better. The convenience of reaching almost any of your contacts directly from WA cannot be understated. This is what Signal & co. are up against. Most old folks won't be switching as WA just works for them. It also doesn't help matters that data plans from ALL telecoms in my country come with FREE WhatsApp bundles.

jlokier 6y ago
I just spoke with someone who clicked "agree" recently to the WhatsApp updated policy, and said they didn't know what they were agreeing to, they just assumed it was one of those numerous minor tweaks to some obscure policy wording. They didn't really have a choice though, because WhatsApp is now the only way they communicate with a family member, who doesn't have a phone any more. They both use a Facebook Portal instead. I think it should be illegal to put users in a position where they are pressured to agree to something without significant effects of agreeing being made clear. And I think they should be able to return the Portals for a refund when something like this changes on them.
- freebuju 6y ago
  Excuse my ignorance but you've just educated me on the product Facebook portal. I've never been more terrified of a communications gadget. I shudder thinking of how many unaware users are actively giving Facebook their bio data, exact location & whatever info they give to them when they invite FB into their lives like this. Whew! On policy agreements vis-a-vis user privacy, it is a bit of a conundrum that I don't see the normal consumer winning. WhatsApp/Facebook are doing nothing illegal by giving users these new terms. The major problem with such T&C is that the normal user cannot fully understand the contents of them. I will confess to being one of them. Most of them are written effectively to be nothing but legalese scapegoats. With jargons the average Joe cannot comprehend. This I see is the biggest obstacle to every day privacy & user data protection. Bonus fact: it's not just Facebook knowingly doing this for profit. Many everyday services which we click & agree yes to are doing so. Someone above just pointed out that sometimes they click yes because they know big tech already have their data or will at some point obtain it, why delay the obvious outcome? Though this shouldn't mean you cannot feed them fake data at any given point/excuse. Privacy battle is not for those who give up easy.
Yizahi 6y ago
I click yes to new policy changes in most of the software. It is not possible to read and understand exact details of every forty page long agreement, especially because a lot of information is omitted for legal reasons or masked by a vague formulas. And it is also almost impossible to deny new changes, because it means that you need to stop using a service and most of the time it is required by outside forces, e.g. work or relatives, or a service is a monopoly, either legally monopoly or monopoly in spirit, where alternatives can't be used. I just assume that all my information is already sold, regardless of the company brand. We lost this war for privacy.
phreack 6y ago
> It also doesn't help matters that data plans from ALL telecoms in my country come with FREE WhatsApp bundles. Is that a lack of net neutrality? Does your country have laws about it?
- freebuju 6y ago
  Net neutrality is a foreign concept in my land (am in East Africa). There are strong laws governing usage/misuse of internet by users but none on how ISPs can or cannot promote specific (legal) content/services. Come to think of it. Facebook zero (0.facebook.com) offering users free access to FB was also a thing almost a decade ago and still is a thing today i.e Facebook usage that doesn't count against your data plan. I presume this to be a commercial deal between Facebook and the carriers here. Given how popular Facebook, and more so, WhatsApp is here.

jlokier 6y ago

I just spoke with someone who clicked "agree" recently to the WhatsApp updated policy, and said they didn't know what they were agreeing to, they just assumed it was one of those numerous minor tweaks to some obscure policy wording. They didn't really have a choice though, because WhatsApp is now the only way they communicate with a family member, who doesn't have a phone any more. They both use a Facebook Portal instead. I think it should be illegal to put users in a position where they are pressured to agree to something without significant effects of agreeing being made clear. And I think they should be able to return the Portals for a refund when something like this changes on them.

freebuju 6y ago
Excuse my ignorance but you've just educated me on the product Facebook portal. I've never been more terrified of a communications gadget. I shudder thinking of how many unaware users are actively giving Facebook their bio data, exact location & whatever info they give to them when they invite FB into their lives like this. Whew! On policy agreements vis-a-vis user privacy, it is a bit of a conundrum that I don't see the normal consumer winning. WhatsApp/Facebook are doing nothing illegal by giving users these new terms. The major problem with such T&C is that the normal user cannot fully understand the contents of them. I will confess to being one of them. Most of them are written effectively to be nothing but legalese scapegoats. With jargons the average Joe cannot comprehend. This I see is the biggest obstacle to every day privacy & user data protection. Bonus fact: it's not just Facebook knowingly doing this for profit. Many everyday services which we click & agree yes to are doing so. Someone above just pointed out that sometimes they click yes because they know big tech already have their data or will at some point obtain it, why delay the obvious outcome? Though this shouldn't mean you cannot feed them fake data at any given point/excuse. Privacy battle is not for those who give up easy.

Yizahi 6y ago

I click yes to new policy changes in most of the software. It is not possible to read and understand exact details of every forty page long agreement, especially because a lot of information is omitted for legal reasons or masked by a vague formulas. And it is also almost impossible to deny new changes, because it means that you need to stop using a service and most of the time it is required by outside forces, e.g. work or relatives, or a service is a monopoly, either legally monopoly or monopoly in spirit, where alternatives can't be used. I just assume that all my information is already sold, regardless of the company brand. We lost this war for privacy.

phreack 6y ago

> It also doesn't help matters that data plans from ALL telecoms in my country come with FREE WhatsApp bundles. Is that a lack of net neutrality? Does your country have laws about it?

freebuju 6y ago
Net neutrality is a foreign concept in my land (am in East Africa). There are strong laws governing usage/misuse of internet by users but none on how ISPs can or cannot promote specific (legal) content/services. Come to think of it. Facebook zero (0.facebook.com) offering users free access to FB was also a thing almost a decade ago and still is a thing today i.e Facebook usage that doesn't count against your data plan. I presume this to be a commercial deal between Facebook and the carriers here. Given how popular Facebook, and more so, WhatsApp is here.