4 ms·

The attempted overthrow of an elected government on the 6th is a direct result of RNC activity. They supported the radicalization of millions of people by conti

The attempted overthrow of an elected government on the 6th is a direct result of RNC activity. They supported the radicalization of millions of people by continually claiming that the election was a fraud. Even after the literal halls of democracy were stormed by white nationalists, over a hundred RNC congressmen refused to withdraw their objections to the election. The RNC owns this. If you still support the RNC after the 6th, you own this.

Grustaf 6y ago
I don’t think anyone seriously views that shit show as an attempt to “overthrow an elected government”.
- nicoffeine 6y ago
  "I know there's been a lot of information about the Sedition Act out there, that's probably why you're asking the question," said D'Antuono. "We are not closing the book on anything."[1] D'Antuono is the "assistant director in charge of the FBI's Washington field office." [1] https://www.fox5dc.com/news/fbi-50000-tips-connected-to-capitol-riots-charges-including-sedition-on-the-table https://www.fox5dc.com/news/fbi-50000-tips-connected-to-capi...
  - Grustaf 6y ago
    If you’re planning to take over the most powerful and militarized nation in the history of the world, and only bring a few dozen unarmed people and elect LARPers in viking helmets as leaders then you clearly belong in a mental institution, not in prison.
    - nicoffeine 6y ago
      > 'The rioters had openly planned to disrupt the counting of Electoral College ballots for several weeks prior to the event, and had called for violence against Congress, Pence, and law enforcement. Plans were coordinated on "alt-tech" platforms – distinct from larger social media platforms such as Reddit or Twitter, which have implemented bans to censor violent language and images. Websites like TheDonald.win, founded after its predecessor was banned from Reddit, the social networking service Parler, the chat app Telegram, Gab, and others, were used to discuss previous Trump rallies and to make plans for storming the Capitol. Many of the posters planned for violence prior to the event, with some individuals discussing how to avoid police on the streets, which tools to bring to help pry open doors, and how to smuggle weapons into Washington D.C. Following clashes with Washington D.C police during protests on December 12, 2020, the Proud Boys and far-right groups turned against supporting law enforcement. At least one group, Stop the Steal, posted on December 23, 2020, its plans to occupy the Capitol with promises to "escalate" if met with opposition from law enforcement.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_St...
      - Grustaf 6y ago
        Obviously they wanted to cause disruptions, just like any BLM or environmentalist action. That is not the same as taking over government.
        nicoffeine 6y ago
        They wanted to occupy the Capitol building, using force if necessary, to nullify the results of the 2020 elections. What is that called, if you can't bring yourself to call it taking over the government?
        flippinburgers 6y ago
        I call it you being hyperbolic. They need to be punished according to the law for what they were doing, but you are not responding to the arguments. In no way were they properly mobilized for an actual takeover of the government. I just cannot believe that you actually believe that yourself.
        nicoffeine 6y ago
        They believed they were properly mobilized. They believed the President would walk with them to the Capitol, because he said he would walk with them to the Capitol, after organizing a rally around the slogan "Stop the Steal" on the day they were counting votes. This is clear evidence "insurrection" according to Sen. Mitt Romney and others.[1] Here is a small sample of the chatter leading up to the 6th.[2] If the police stop a truck full of weapons and people with written plans to murder someone, but that someone has more guards and ammunition, it's still attempted murder. If it is "hyperbolic" to say it was a coup attempt when a group of people publicly stated they wanted a coup, found their way to DC, started a riot, broke into the US Capitol, and beat a cop to death, I guess I'm just hyperbolic. [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gNOdcTXBGrcJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/06/democrats-republicans-reaction-trump/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gNOdcT... [2] https://i.redd.it/aqdl9s2pfua61.png https://i.redd.it/aqdl9s2pfua61.png
    - jariel 6y ago
      Republics don't fall internally because their 'armies are defeated'. These are 'coups' and they mean to overthrow the legitimacy of the government. It happens all the time in other countries. This was a 'coup by mob' with obvious incitement (but not technically direct) by Trump & Co. "The election is illegitimate" "Mike Pence must stop the count" "Everyone come to Washington and we will protest the count" "Walk with me down Pennsylvania avenue" "This is political combat, we need to fight and never give up" There are parallels to BLM, but the fundamental difference is the violent mob wanted to stop Pence from validating the election results, which is a very scary existential form of interference going right to the core of the Republic. There are legal consequences to this: if Pence does not validate the vote, then in fundamentally calls into question the legitimacy of Biden. If that transaction doesn't take place, then 'Who is President' in a few weeks is completely ambiguous. How would SCOTUS rule? And does it matter? Trump is playing straight out of the '3rd World Despot Playbook' - this is pretty much how it goes down in the Congo. This insurrection would have physically been deal with, surely, but it could very easily snowball into something much worse. Revolutions to start with a starting gun, they build up to a crescendo, one event propagating to the next. Consider this: during the insurrection, Trump was not calling for people to stand down, he was not coordinating with Pence, he was not calling in the National Guard - you know what he was doing? He was on the phone with members of Congress who were on lockdown the phone being passed among them while he pressured them to 'stop the steal' and to thwart Mike Pence's vote count. If that isn't straight up Treason what is? What happened on Capitol Hill was not dangerous for the momentary bit of violence, it was dangerous because it's a strike to the essential foundations of the Republic. Finally - I don't know what the RNC had to do with any of this, which is why I asked.
engineer_22 6y ago
-> The attempted overthrow of an elected government You're giving that rabble too much credit. It more resembled the spasms of a dying bird, than a Bay of Pigs.
mixedCase 6y ago
Got it, so all we need to discredit any idea or proposition is to associate some violent people with it. There goes the Democratic party too between the explicit support of previous riots by some of its representatives and their racist history with the KKK and enslavers. Do you think that makes sense?
- nicoffeine 6y ago
  It would make sense if the DNC organized a rally on the day that Congress was set to formally accept the results of an election, spent a few hours telling thousands of people that their vote was stolen, and then Barack Obama instructed the crowd to march over to the Capitol, the crowd stormed the building full of elected officials, and even after that, no one from the DNC would admit that they were lying about a stolen election. If that happened, then of course it would make sense to discredit the DNC. In the end, Trump has robbed the RNC of its ability to be accountable to the democratic process. Hope it was worth it.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    The facts are: - the Dominion voting machine, used in 29 states, is not FEC compliant (owned by CCP, can connect to Internet, allows editing of votes.) The election was stolen. - antifa was involved in the Capitol riot (the man breaking tehe Capitol window was not part of the crowd, and refused to stop after the crowd asked him), and antifa is associated with the DNC, as proven by Pelosi's 2 month delay in denouncing the burning of downtowns. 'Agent Provocateur' Tactics Seen at Jan 6 US Capitol Protest—Interview With Michael Yon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIeKj7fZ8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIeKj7fZ8U If you've studied history, antifa looks the same as Nazi brown shirts or Italy's Fascists in WW2, and were used by parties not in power, just like the DNC. - Trump didn't say anything to incite anybody on Jan. 6. However, when you have a crowd of 500,000 people, events can happen. Note the DNC never had crowds at that scale, yet somehow won an election with a senile candidate hiding in his basement. So the election was stolen, and the DNC did create the riot, and the DNC is discredited to anybody paying attention.
  - achenatx 6y ago

Grustaf 6y ago

I don’t think anyone seriously views that shit show as an attempt to “overthrow an elected government”.

nicoffeine 6y ago
"I know there's been a lot of information about the Sedition Act out there, that's probably why you're asking the question," said D'Antuono. "We are not closing the book on anything."[1] D'Antuono is the "assistant director in charge of the FBI's Washington field office." [1] https://www.fox5dc.com/news/fbi-50000-tips-connected-to-capitol-riots-charges-including-sedition-on-the-table https://www.fox5dc.com/news/fbi-50000-tips-connected-to-capi...
- Grustaf 6y ago
  If you’re planning to take over the most powerful and militarized nation in the history of the world, and only bring a few dozen unarmed people and elect LARPers in viking helmets as leaders then you clearly belong in a mental institution, not in prison.
  - nicoffeine 6y ago
    > 'The rioters had openly planned to disrupt the counting of Electoral College ballots for several weeks prior to the event, and had called for violence against Congress, Pence, and law enforcement. Plans were coordinated on "alt-tech" platforms – distinct from larger social media platforms such as Reddit or Twitter, which have implemented bans to censor violent language and images. Websites like TheDonald.win, founded after its predecessor was banned from Reddit, the social networking service Parler, the chat app Telegram, Gab, and others, were used to discuss previous Trump rallies and to make plans for storming the Capitol. Many of the posters planned for violence prior to the event, with some individuals discussing how to avoid police on the streets, which tools to bring to help pry open doors, and how to smuggle weapons into Washington D.C. Following clashes with Washington D.C police during protests on December 12, 2020, the Proud Boys and far-right groups turned against supporting law enforcement. At least one group, Stop the Steal, posted on December 23, 2020, its plans to occupy the Capitol with promises to "escalate" if met with opposition from law enforcement.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_St...
    - Grustaf 6y ago
      Obviously they wanted to cause disruptions, just like any BLM or environmentalist action. That is not the same as taking over government.
      - nicoffeine 6y ago
        They wanted to occupy the Capitol building, using force if necessary, to nullify the results of the 2020 elections. What is that called, if you can't bring yourself to call it taking over the government?
        flippinburgers 6y ago
        I call it you being hyperbolic. They need to be punished according to the law for what they were doing, but you are not responding to the arguments. In no way were they properly mobilized for an actual takeover of the government. I just cannot believe that you actually believe that yourself.
        nicoffeine 6y ago
        They believed they were properly mobilized. They believed the President would walk with them to the Capitol, because he said he would walk with them to the Capitol, after organizing a rally around the slogan "Stop the Steal" on the day they were counting votes. This is clear evidence "insurrection" according to Sen. Mitt Romney and others.[1] Here is a small sample of the chatter leading up to the 6th.[2] If the police stop a truck full of weapons and people with written plans to murder someone, but that someone has more guards and ammunition, it's still attempted murder. If it is "hyperbolic" to say it was a coup attempt when a group of people publicly stated they wanted a coup, found their way to DC, started a riot, broke into the US Capitol, and beat a cop to death, I guess I'm just hyperbolic. [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gNOdcTXBGrcJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/06/democrats-republicans-reaction-trump/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gNOdcT... [2] https://i.redd.it/aqdl9s2pfua61.png https://i.redd.it/aqdl9s2pfua61.png
  - jariel 6y ago
    Republics don't fall internally because their 'armies are defeated'. These are 'coups' and they mean to overthrow the legitimacy of the government. It happens all the time in other countries. This was a 'coup by mob' with obvious incitement (but not technically direct) by Trump & Co. "The election is illegitimate" "Mike Pence must stop the count" "Everyone come to Washington and we will protest the count" "Walk with me down Pennsylvania avenue" "This is political combat, we need to fight and never give up" There are parallels to BLM, but the fundamental difference is the violent mob wanted to stop Pence from validating the election results, which is a very scary existential form of interference going right to the core of the Republic. There are legal consequences to this: if Pence does not validate the vote, then in fundamentally calls into question the legitimacy of Biden. If that transaction doesn't take place, then 'Who is President' in a few weeks is completely ambiguous. How would SCOTUS rule? And does it matter? Trump is playing straight out of the '3rd World Despot Playbook' - this is pretty much how it goes down in the Congo. This insurrection would have physically been deal with, surely, but it could very easily snowball into something much worse. Revolutions to start with a starting gun, they build up to a crescendo, one event propagating to the next. Consider this: during the insurrection, Trump was not calling for people to stand down, he was not coordinating with Pence, he was not calling in the National Guard - you know what he was doing? He was on the phone with members of Congress who were on lockdown the phone being passed among them while he pressured them to 'stop the steal' and to thwart Mike Pence's vote count. If that isn't straight up Treason what is? What happened on Capitol Hill was not dangerous for the momentary bit of violence, it was dangerous because it's a strike to the essential foundations of the Republic. Finally - I don't know what the RNC had to do with any of this, which is why I asked.

engineer_22 6y ago

-> The attempted overthrow of an elected government You're giving that rabble too much credit. It more resembled the spasms of a dying bird, than a Bay of Pigs.

mixedCase 6y ago

Got it, so all we need to discredit any idea or proposition is to associate some violent people with it. There goes the Democratic party too between the explicit support of previous riots by some of its representatives and their racist history with the KKK and enslavers. Do you think that makes sense?

nicoffeine 6y ago
It would make sense if the DNC organized a rally on the day that Congress was set to formally accept the results of an election, spent a few hours telling thousands of people that their vote was stolen, and then Barack Obama instructed the crowd to march over to the Capitol, the crowd stormed the building full of elected officials, and even after that, no one from the DNC would admit that they were lying about a stolen election. If that happened, then of course it would make sense to discredit the DNC. In the end, Trump has robbed the RNC of its ability to be accountable to the democratic process. Hope it was worth it.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  The facts are: - the Dominion voting machine, used in 29 states, is not FEC compliant (owned by CCP, can connect to Internet, allows editing of votes.) The election was stolen. - antifa was involved in the Capitol riot (the man breaking tehe Capitol window was not part of the crowd, and refused to stop after the crowd asked him), and antifa is associated with the DNC, as proven by Pelosi's 2 month delay in denouncing the burning of downtowns. 'Agent Provocateur' Tactics Seen at Jan 6 US Capitol Protest—Interview With Michael Yon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIeKj7fZ8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIeKj7fZ8U If you've studied history, antifa looks the same as Nazi brown shirts or Italy's Fascists in WW2, and were used by parties not in power, just like the DNC. - Trump didn't say anything to incite anybody on Jan. 6. However, when you have a crowd of 500,000 people, events can happen. Note the DNC never had crowds at that scale, yet somehow won an election with a senile candidate hiding in his basement. So the election was stolen, and the DNC did create the riot, and the DNC is discredited to anybody paying attention.
- achenatx 6y ago