5 ms·

I keep hearing the court claim but most of the court cases were dismissed without looking at the evidence. [1] You have to wonder why the democrats, Biden in p

by vimy 6y ago

I keep hearing the court claim but most of the court cases were dismissed without looking at the evidence. [1] You have to wonder why the democrats, Biden in particular, never simply said. “We don’t think there was fraud but to ensure faith in fair elections and democracy we fully support a full investigation / audit. We have the utmost confidence in the outcome of this investigation / audit.” Instead they mocked and opposed every attempt to look deeper in the alleged fraud. Is it really so weird then that people start to wonder why there is so much resistance to the idea of fraud after 4 years of democrats and media claiming Russia stole the election? [1]https://hereistheevidence.com/election-2020/stats/ https://hereistheevidence.com/election-2020/stats/

mythrwy 6y ago
That's exactly right. "Dozens of court cases found no evidence" is a Reddit fake fact. In reality the evidence wasn't examined in courts. Nor in the Senate. The riot and breach on the 6'th made sure of that.
- Munksgaard 6y ago
  As far as I've understood, judges can (perhaps are even expected to) throw out cases that have no real evidence behind them. I could accuse you of stealing my car and sue you, but unless I have some basic proof, the judge doesn't have to take my case seriously.
  - Volundr 6y ago
    Exactly this. One of the common claims is that the courts dismissed on technicalities and "refused to look at the evidence", when in actually many of the cases where dismissed specifically because the "evidence" wasn't compelling. Hence the Georgia judge chewing out Guiliani over their flawed affidavit collection for example.
mcphage 6y ago
> “We don’t think there was fraud but to ensure faith in fair elections and democracy we fully support a full investigation / audit. We have the utmost confidence in the outcome of this investigation / audit.” How many times do you want them to recount Georgia? Read the transcript of Trump's call with Raffensperger—they investigated all of these rumors, and they turned out to be nonsense. And the simple answer to your question is, because nobody believes that a "full investigation" would ensure anybody's faith in the election. Accusations of fraud started the night of the election, they're not based on evidence. And so no amount of investigating will ever be enough. Or as Jonathan Swift put it: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- vimy 6y ago
  Do you not find it suspicious that on election night four states where Trump was ahead simultaneously decided to stop counting, something that has never happened before, and Biden had huge spikes after they started counting again. One of the states claimed there was a water leak which turned out to be a lie to remove observers. With no observers present they restarted counting. This was the main event that spurred the fraud claims. They only did a random sampling of signature checks in one county in Georgia. That's not a full audit. In Georgia, Biden overtook Trump with 89 percent of the votes counted. For the next 53 batches of votes counted, Biden led Trump by the same exact 50.05 to 49.95 percent margin in every single batch. It is particularly perplexing that all statistical anomalies and tabulation abnormalities were in Biden’s favor.
  - onethought 6y ago
    So even if you were right about Georgia (even though the evidence says you are not). That would not change the outcome. But then you will involve slippery slope and day: but if it happened in Georgia, then it probably happened elsewhere... but that’s BS, you need to show the evidence elsewhere as well. Then even if you accept all the bullshit, there is maximum only absolutely max: 2 million votes in “question”. Where Biden won by 7 million votes. So you Are still relying on the bs electoral college that has no democratic justification to say you won... Honestly, if you want to stop the steal, get rid of that... but the problem with that is, you wouldn’t have had a Republican President since the 80s... So keep making up rules until you can get minority rule. Filibusters, electoral college and failing that just kick down the doors... how can anyone think they are protecting democracy with this stuff!?
onethought 6y ago
I just browsed that website... that isn’t evidence and it’s spewing more lies about how Europe and other countries vote. Honestly don’t believe this stuff, please go and look up how other countries do mail in ballots... it isn’t controversial or insecure. Showing stats of how upset people are isn’t evidence is fraud... “Witness count” is not evidence of anything, and could imply there are just more people willing to lie. Which is the more believable narrative given lying is happening. They audited the votes in almost all the swing counties... nothing... in fact it was miscounted in trumps favour in some. They did do a full audit in Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania ... where else would you like one?
- vimy 6y ago
  Not sure why you think those are lies? I'm from Western Europe and I don't know any neighboring country nor my own where you can vote without an ID. In my country it works like this: Every citizen automatically gets a paper in the mail telling them where to vote. You show the paper and your ID at the polling place so they can check if you're a real person. Then you vote. If you're sick or old you have to sign a paper and give your ID, the signed paper and the paper you got in the mail to a person that will go to the polling place for you. Mail-in ballots are only allowed for people living abroad and every election things go wrong with those. All the experts telling mail-in ballots are perfectly safe used to say different things. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-... And honestly, not requiring voter ID for an election is just dumb. The evidence is at https://hereistheevidence.com https://hereistheevidence.com, in case you think it was only that stats page?
  - onethought 6y ago
    UK. (I guess technically it’s not EU) does mail in ballots. ID is done via number and signature similar to US. Australia/NZ/Canada do mail in ballots in an almost identical way. Northern Europe do mail in using a register and signature. Honestly go look up the relevant electoral bodies. Which bit don’t you like? I figured if you were doing a page of evidence you’d put your most compelling evidence up front? Am I missing something? So I agree voter id is an issue, but think of the numbers involved, even if you could physically vote many times... how do you vote more than 10 times with 1 hour queues? Where do you get the extra 10s of thousands of serial numbered mail in ballots to fraudulently fill out? Was there mass theft from peoples mailboxes? The random upset republican voter saying they saw a “radical left van” is not evidence of anything important.

by vimy 6y ago

mythrwy 6y ago

That's exactly right. "Dozens of court cases found no evidence" is a Reddit fake fact. In reality the evidence wasn't examined in courts. Nor in the Senate. The riot and breach on the 6'th made sure of that.

Munksgaard 6y ago
As far as I've understood, judges can (perhaps are even expected to) throw out cases that have no real evidence behind them. I could accuse you of stealing my car and sue you, but unless I have some basic proof, the judge doesn't have to take my case seriously.
- Volundr 6y ago
  Exactly this. One of the common claims is that the courts dismissed on technicalities and "refused to look at the evidence", when in actually many of the cases where dismissed specifically because the "evidence" wasn't compelling. Hence the Georgia judge chewing out Guiliani over their flawed affidavit collection for example.

mcphage 6y ago

> “We don’t think there was fraud but to ensure faith in fair elections and democracy we fully support a full investigation / audit. We have the utmost confidence in the outcome of this investigation / audit.” How many times do you want them to recount Georgia? Read the transcript of Trump's call with Raffensperger—they investigated all of these rumors, and they turned out to be nonsense. And the simple answer to your question is, because nobody believes that a "full investigation" would ensure anybody's faith in the election. Accusations of fraud started the night of the election, they're not based on evidence. And so no amount of investigating will ever be enough. Or as Jonathan Swift put it: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

vimy 6y ago
Do you not find it suspicious that on election night four states where Trump was ahead simultaneously decided to stop counting, something that has never happened before, and Biden had huge spikes after they started counting again. One of the states claimed there was a water leak which turned out to be a lie to remove observers. With no observers present they restarted counting. This was the main event that spurred the fraud claims. They only did a random sampling of signature checks in one county in Georgia. That's not a full audit. In Georgia, Biden overtook Trump with 89 percent of the votes counted. For the next 53 batches of votes counted, Biden led Trump by the same exact 50.05 to 49.95 percent margin in every single batch. It is particularly perplexing that all statistical anomalies and tabulation abnormalities were in Biden’s favor.
- onethought 6y ago
  So even if you were right about Georgia (even though the evidence says you are not). That would not change the outcome. But then you will involve slippery slope and day: but if it happened in Georgia, then it probably happened elsewhere... but that’s BS, you need to show the evidence elsewhere as well. Then even if you accept all the bullshit, there is maximum only absolutely max: 2 million votes in “question”. Where Biden won by 7 million votes. So you Are still relying on the bs electoral college that has no democratic justification to say you won... Honestly, if you want to stop the steal, get rid of that... but the problem with that is, you wouldn’t have had a Republican President since the 80s... So keep making up rules until you can get minority rule. Filibusters, electoral college and failing that just kick down the doors... how can anyone think they are protecting democracy with this stuff!?

onethought 6y ago

I just browsed that website... that isn’t evidence and it’s spewing more lies about how Europe and other countries vote. Honestly don’t believe this stuff, please go and look up how other countries do mail in ballots... it isn’t controversial or insecure. Showing stats of how upset people are isn’t evidence is fraud... “Witness count” is not evidence of anything, and could imply there are just more people willing to lie. Which is the more believable narrative given lying is happening. They audited the votes in almost all the swing counties... nothing... in fact it was miscounted in trumps favour in some. They did do a full audit in Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania ... where else would you like one?

vimy 6y ago
Not sure why you think those are lies? I'm from Western Europe and I don't know any neighboring country nor my own where you can vote without an ID. In my country it works like this: Every citizen automatically gets a paper in the mail telling them where to vote. You show the paper and your ID at the polling place so they can check if you're a real person. Then you vote. If you're sick or old you have to sign a paper and give your ID, the signed paper and the paper you got in the mail to a person that will go to the polling place for you. Mail-in ballots are only allowed for people living abroad and every election things go wrong with those. All the experts telling mail-in ballots are perfectly safe used to say different things. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-... And honestly, not requiring voter ID for an election is just dumb. The evidence is at https://hereistheevidence.com https://hereistheevidence.com, in case you think it was only that stats page?
- onethought 6y ago
  UK. (I guess technically it’s not EU) does mail in ballots. ID is done via number and signature similar to US. Australia/NZ/Canada do mail in ballots in an almost identical way. Northern Europe do mail in using a register and signature. Honestly go look up the relevant electoral bodies. Which bit don’t you like? I figured if you were doing a page of evidence you’d put your most compelling evidence up front? Am I missing something? So I agree voter id is an issue, but think of the numbers involved, even if you could physically vote many times... how do you vote more than 10 times with 1 hour queues? Where do you get the extra 10s of thousands of serial numbered mail in ballots to fraudulently fill out? Was there mass theft from peoples mailboxes? The random upset republican voter saying they saw a “radical left van” is not evidence of anything important.