4 ms·

This is parody, right? Take the bottom 50% (or whatever) in generation A. Count what percentage of their children end up in the top 30% (or whatever). Thats' m

This is parody, right? Take the bottom 50% (or whatever) in generation A. Count what percentage of their children end up in the top 30% (or whatever). Thats' mobility. And it's highest in Northern Europe, by any reasonable standard.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Do you have sources for those number or at least any anecdotal evidence?
- evgen 6y ago
  You do realize that this has been widely studied and reported on for longer than you have been alive, don't you? It literally takes seconds to pop 'economic mobility' into any search engine and within one or two links you are looking at widely cited academic studies using standard methods for measurement of this mobility and all ending up at similar conclusions regarding how economic mobility in the US was never as great as people claimed in the first place and has diminished significantly over the last two or three decades. The field is so broad and deep that papers which we would now describe as meta-analysis go back to the 70s and a quick bounce through citeseer led to a couple of papers from the 50s that might even qualify as such.
tristor 6y ago
> Take the bottom 50% (or whatever) in generation A. Count what percentage of their children end up in the top 30% (or whatever). Thats' mobility. And it's highest in Northern Europe, by any reasonable standard. Except that this isn't true. You are basing this assertion on mobility indexes which account for more than this raw mobility. It's the reverse. By raw mobility, the US does outperform Europe. But, importantly, and accounted for by the indexes are referenced in the follow-up comment to your other respondent, people in Europe do not backslide between generations the way they do in the US. Europe has higher economic stability, but lower mobility, due to broader social support systems and much more heavily progressive taxation. Any study that goes back before WW2 shows a different story in the US, and that's partly because post-WW2 was a major economic shift between the US and Europe, and also because the US has to account for its (relatively short) history of discrimination affecting economic mobility, especially in the South. A more honest take is that economic mobility is different in both places based on various demographic factors /other/ than economics. If you're college educated and white or college educated and an immigrant your economic mobility in the US is very high, if you are not college educated or not white (but a non-immigrant) your economic mobility in the US is very low. In the EU there is less disparity, but less overall mobility, which can be accounted for partly by the broader parts of society receiving higher education, and partly by the more progressive taxation which prevents massive jumps in wealth accumulation and is used to ensure a higher minimal standard of living for the poorest in society.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

Do you have sources for those number or at least any anecdotal evidence?

evgen 6y ago
You do realize that this has been widely studied and reported on for longer than you have been alive, don't you? It literally takes seconds to pop 'economic mobility' into any search engine and within one or two links you are looking at widely cited academic studies using standard methods for measurement of this mobility and all ending up at similar conclusions regarding how economic mobility in the US was never as great as people claimed in the first place and has diminished significantly over the last two or three decades. The field is so broad and deep that papers which we would now describe as meta-analysis go back to the 70s and a quick bounce through citeseer led to a couple of papers from the 50s that might even qualify as such.

tristor 6y ago

> Take the bottom 50% (or whatever) in generation A. Count what percentage of their children end up in the top 30% (or whatever). Thats' mobility. And it's highest in Northern Europe, by any reasonable standard. Except that this isn't true. You are basing this assertion on mobility indexes which account for more than this raw mobility. It's the reverse. By raw mobility, the US does outperform Europe. But, importantly, and accounted for by the indexes are referenced in the follow-up comment to your other respondent, people in Europe do not backslide between generations the way they do in the US. Europe has higher economic stability, but lower mobility, due to broader social support systems and much more heavily progressive taxation. Any study that goes back before WW2 shows a different story in the US, and that's partly because post-WW2 was a major economic shift between the US and Europe, and also because the US has to account for its (relatively short) history of discrimination affecting economic mobility, especially in the South. A more honest take is that economic mobility is different in both places based on various demographic factors /other/ than economics. If you're college educated and white or college educated and an immigrant your economic mobility in the US is very high, if you are not college educated or not white (but a non-immigrant) your economic mobility in the US is very low. In the EU there is less disparity, but less overall mobility, which can be accounted for partly by the broader parts of society receiving higher education, and partly by the more progressive taxation which prevents massive jumps in wealth accumulation and is used to ensure a higher minimal standard of living for the poorest in society.