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I must say that I find it rather odd that apparently it is “phænomenal” that 25% of all trips are by bike. What other means of transportation would one use for

I must say that I find it rather odd that apparently it is “phænomenal” that 25% of all trips are by bike. What other means of transportation would one use for short distances where a bike is simply faster than a car due to ease of parking? Personally, however, I use a skateboard fitted with 100 mm all terrain wheels for even greater ease of parking.

dairylee 6y ago
For myself, in the UK, it's not about which mode of transport is faster but which mode of transport is safer.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  It is truly unsafe to take a bicycle in the U.K.?
  - dmitri1981 6y ago
    Depends where you are. London is starting to get some good cycling lanes and some junctions are having traffic rerouted to make it safer for cyclists. Sadly in many other places cycling only really works for confident riders. Lots of drivers are either unaware of cyclists or downright aggressive. I would have near misses on a weekly basis. Things are getting better but very slowly.
    - wooger 6y ago
      And in our other cities it's still way cheaper (and socially acceptable) to drive in from the suburbs and park. There are car parks literally 200m from the centre of Birmingham where you can park all day for less than 10 pounds, and cheaper still nearby. Things are starting to change (oddly during COVID) by addition of bus gates, but they're making very slow progress. We've already delayed and diluted our congestion charge multiple times.
  - armada651 6y ago
    As a Dutch person who lived in the UK for a year, yes. Bicycle lanes are nearly non-existent outside of London and the boroughs seem to be hostile to the idea in general. The few bicycle lanes you do find often end as abruptly as they start, there's nothing connecting them and there are no bicycle crossings when you meet a road. However if you get a mountain bike and stick to the dirt roads along the rivers and hills, it is a great place to enjoy cycling through the countryside. One of the best bike trips I've done is cycling for 30 miles along the Thames river. So the UK is great for scenic cycling, terrible for a cycling commute. And yes, any Dutch expat you meet is silently judging your country on the safety of its cycling infrastructure.
    - DrBazza 6y ago
      > Yes, any Dutch expat you meet is silently judging your country on the safety of its cycling infrastructure. And so you should. The UK's cycling infrastructure is embarrassingly bad. An example. Local to me, recently, the government spent over £100m on a new road junction, to replace an old one. One of the main reasons that they had to build a new junction was that they claimed they could not remove traffic lights from the roundabout to improve traffic because pedestrians and cyclists both crossed the junction at 'street level'. A local cycle organization submitted a proposal with modelling (I can't find the link atm.), that showed that the desired increase in capacity could be achieved by adding bridges for pedestrians and cyclists, removing traffic lights, and altering the road layout. And save about £90m. Needlessly to say, the junction was built. I have no idea whether their proposal was considered, or not, unless I submit a freedom of information request to the UK government. Regardless, the bridges should have been built anyway, because the junction is between two suburbs. The new junction did get a new cyclist/pedestrian bridge to replace the old one. Except it's about 1km further away from the suburbs that the previous junction, so adding 2km to bike journeys.
      - markvdb 6y ago
        Actually, bicycle tunnels - with a limited slope of course, like all other bicycle infrastructure - are recommended over bicycle bridges. These are more comfortable for cyclists. Gravity helps one cycle down, and the kinetic energy gained helps cyclists on the way up in the second half of the tunnel.
  - DrBazza 6y ago
    It depends, but yes. There are a lot of deaths each year, and the law is not in favour of the cyclist either. In fact, it gets worse: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45154708 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45154708 Stay away from the cities, and it's generally safer, but at the same time you'll find cars doing 60 mph on single carriageway roads (the national speed limit), which can also be marked as a national cycle route. If you cycle somewhere where cars don't normally encounter cyclists, it can be "fun" as the motorists don't know how to behave. The trouble with the UK is that even so-called cycle paths are shared with footpaths, so pedestrians are all over the place, and cycle paths that are getting built as 'joint' footpaths, mean as a cyclist you also stop at every road junction. Compare that to Europe, where the cycle path is an additional lane next to the road/main carriageway and is usually physically separated in some way for safety. In the UK this has the unfortunate effect of making a large percentage of cyclist just us the road (which they are legally entitled to do), because the cycle path next to the road "stops" every 100 yards because there's a road joining the main carriageway that you have to cross.
    - phicoh 6y ago
      The side road can be restructured to give bikes priority. And put some good speedbumps on the side road to give cars a hint that they need to pay attention.
      - DrBazza 6y ago
        Agreed. They can, but they never are. For car drivers, the expectation is that they have right of way on a road, and they that come to a halt at the road junction, and not a few yards before it because there's a bike path crossing. Town planners/local planning departments are under so much pressure that they literally just end up ticking boxes, and rarely push back on house builders to change their site plans. The 'desire path' is a straight line, for both pedestrians and cyclists, yet new housing estates are allowed to put in bendy cyclepath/footpaths next to otherwise straight roads. It is ridiculous. Anything 'new' to car drivers in the UK is a problem. We definitely should try and change UK roads to be more bike friendly, but that's the reality. The new bike roundabout in Cambridge, unique in the UK, but common in Europe, and.... accidents: https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-traffic-cyclist-involved-crash-19275730 https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambrid...
47r6dudh 6y ago
Personally I'd escooter everywhere if my own city hadn't hobbled them thoroughly (both dockless and personal). I respect the cycling community but it's just too much work for me and I imagine many similarly unambitious people.
- wooger 6y ago
  hobbled how? For me, the form factor of a battery powered lazy person's vehicle is not yet perfected, and they should be more akin to a sit-down vespa scooter than the current scooters. The centre of mass is just too high, the wheels too small. They should also be restricted to roads - as a cyclist I've never seen one ridden safely in a bike path, and I don't think standing allows for quick enough braking for the average user. Not to mention that in my country, outside of a few city specific rental deals, all scooters are illegal for use in public - so literally everyone on one is a dangerous criminal.
frederikvs 6y ago
Do take into account that there are places where infrastructure is designed primarily around cars. This means a.o. that wherever you want to go, there'll be pretty good parking really close by. Combine that with a lack of proper bike infrastructure. No bike racks anywhere in sight, so you have to dump your bike on the pavement, hoping nobody will give it a shove because it's in their way. No bike lanes, or if there are, they have angles and corners that are not realistic to take on a bike. Corners that have you swerving into the opposite lane if you take them at anything above 15 km/h. In those situations taking the car for short distances becomes the convenient, fast and safe thing to do. P.S. from your name I suspect you're Dutch. In that case you don't even have to go far to find that sort of situation. I live in Belgium, which is generally considered to be a rather bike friendly country. I beg to differ. Everything I describe above applies, at least in a region of a few kilometers around my house. I can only assume it also applies elsewhere in Belgium.
throwaway2245 6y ago
I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in the world after Utrecht (also in the Netherlands). At a comparable train station in London, you would be lucky to find 10 bike parking spaces.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  > I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. Yet you will find many Dutchmen in this thread, including the comment you're replying to, that express that this is the first time in their lives they've given it thought. > I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in the world after Utrecht (also in the Netherlands). One of the many reasons I favor the skateboard over the bicycle — it joins me in the train. > At a comparable train station in London, you would be lucky to find 10 bike parking spaces. Well I have never been at a London train station. I've been at Belgian, German, and French ones, and I did not notice any particular difference that stood out.
- jules 6y ago
  At a busy time, the average stationsfietsenstalling is overfull and has -500 places, so that's why people complain :)
  - throwaway2245 6y ago
    Of course! In London, it can just be expected that there is not anywhere appropriate to park. And, nobody cares to do anything about this, so it seems futile to complain.
jules 6y ago
Bike, walk, scooter, bus, train, car. Here's a breakdown (in million trips, 2016 numbers): Car as driver: 4854 Car as passenger: 2127 Train: 350 Bus/tram/metro: 407 Scooter: 163 Bike: 4041 Walk: 2702 Other: 242 Source: https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/auto-populairste-vervoermiddel-naar-werk-ook-voor-korte-stukjes~ad580edc/121361624/ https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/auto-populairste-vervoermiddel-na...
Someone 6y ago
> What other means of transportation would one use for short distances Uber (half-joking) In large parts of the USA, cities are cut into small parts by wide 50-mile per hour streets, it’s illegal (and dangerous to try, if not made impossible by barriers in the middle of the street) to cross streets between road crossings, road crossings are a quarter of a mile or so apart, and there aren’t any cycling facilities. Those wide roads often don’t have sidewalks. Also, as to ease of parking: the USA loves parking space, for cars (https://www.mba.org/documents/18806_research_riha_parking_report%20(1).pdf https://www.mba.org/documents/18806_research_riha_parking_re...) That makes cities larger, further discouraging cycling and walking.

dairylee 6y ago

For myself, in the UK, it's not about which mode of transport is faster but which mode of transport is safer.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
It is truly unsafe to take a bicycle in the U.K.?
- dmitri1981 6y ago
  Depends where you are. London is starting to get some good cycling lanes and some junctions are having traffic rerouted to make it safer for cyclists. Sadly in many other places cycling only really works for confident riders. Lots of drivers are either unaware of cyclists or downright aggressive. I would have near misses on a weekly basis. Things are getting better but very slowly.
  - wooger 6y ago
    And in our other cities it's still way cheaper (and socially acceptable) to drive in from the suburbs and park. There are car parks literally 200m from the centre of Birmingham where you can park all day for less than 10 pounds, and cheaper still nearby. Things are starting to change (oddly during COVID) by addition of bus gates, but they're making very slow progress. We've already delayed and diluted our congestion charge multiple times.
- armada651 6y ago
  As a Dutch person who lived in the UK for a year, yes. Bicycle lanes are nearly non-existent outside of London and the boroughs seem to be hostile to the idea in general. The few bicycle lanes you do find often end as abruptly as they start, there's nothing connecting them and there are no bicycle crossings when you meet a road. However if you get a mountain bike and stick to the dirt roads along the rivers and hills, it is a great place to enjoy cycling through the countryside. One of the best bike trips I've done is cycling for 30 miles along the Thames river. So the UK is great for scenic cycling, terrible for a cycling commute. And yes, any Dutch expat you meet is silently judging your country on the safety of its cycling infrastructure.
  - DrBazza 6y ago
    > Yes, any Dutch expat you meet is silently judging your country on the safety of its cycling infrastructure. And so you should. The UK's cycling infrastructure is embarrassingly bad. An example. Local to me, recently, the government spent over £100m on a new road junction, to replace an old one. One of the main reasons that they had to build a new junction was that they claimed they could not remove traffic lights from the roundabout to improve traffic because pedestrians and cyclists both crossed the junction at 'street level'. A local cycle organization submitted a proposal with modelling (I can't find the link atm.), that showed that the desired increase in capacity could be achieved by adding bridges for pedestrians and cyclists, removing traffic lights, and altering the road layout. And save about £90m. Needlessly to say, the junction was built. I have no idea whether their proposal was considered, or not, unless I submit a freedom of information request to the UK government. Regardless, the bridges should have been built anyway, because the junction is between two suburbs. The new junction did get a new cyclist/pedestrian bridge to replace the old one. Except it's about 1km further away from the suburbs that the previous junction, so adding 2km to bike journeys.
    - markvdb 6y ago
      Actually, bicycle tunnels - with a limited slope of course, like all other bicycle infrastructure - are recommended over bicycle bridges. These are more comfortable for cyclists. Gravity helps one cycle down, and the kinetic energy gained helps cyclists on the way up in the second half of the tunnel.
- DrBazza 6y ago
  It depends, but yes. There are a lot of deaths each year, and the law is not in favour of the cyclist either. In fact, it gets worse: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45154708 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45154708 Stay away from the cities, and it's generally safer, but at the same time you'll find cars doing 60 mph on single carriageway roads (the national speed limit), which can also be marked as a national cycle route. If you cycle somewhere where cars don't normally encounter cyclists, it can be "fun" as the motorists don't know how to behave. The trouble with the UK is that even so-called cycle paths are shared with footpaths, so pedestrians are all over the place, and cycle paths that are getting built as 'joint' footpaths, mean as a cyclist you also stop at every road junction. Compare that to Europe, where the cycle path is an additional lane next to the road/main carriageway and is usually physically separated in some way for safety. In the UK this has the unfortunate effect of making a large percentage of cyclist just us the road (which they are legally entitled to do), because the cycle path next to the road "stops" every 100 yards because there's a road joining the main carriageway that you have to cross.
  - phicoh 6y ago
    The side road can be restructured to give bikes priority. And put some good speedbumps on the side road to give cars a hint that they need to pay attention.
    - DrBazza 6y ago
      Agreed. They can, but they never are. For car drivers, the expectation is that they have right of way on a road, and they that come to a halt at the road junction, and not a few yards before it because there's a bike path crossing. Town planners/local planning departments are under so much pressure that they literally just end up ticking boxes, and rarely push back on house builders to change their site plans. The 'desire path' is a straight line, for both pedestrians and cyclists, yet new housing estates are allowed to put in bendy cyclepath/footpaths next to otherwise straight roads. It is ridiculous. Anything 'new' to car drivers in the UK is a problem. We definitely should try and change UK roads to be more bike friendly, but that's the reality. The new bike roundabout in Cambridge, unique in the UK, but common in Europe, and.... accidents: https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-traffic-cyclist-involved-crash-19275730 https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambrid...

47r6dudh 6y ago

Personally I'd escooter everywhere if my own city hadn't hobbled them thoroughly (both dockless and personal). I respect the cycling community but it's just too much work for me and I imagine many similarly unambitious people.

wooger 6y ago
hobbled how? For me, the form factor of a battery powered lazy person's vehicle is not yet perfected, and they should be more akin to a sit-down vespa scooter than the current scooters. The centre of mass is just too high, the wheels too small. They should also be restricted to roads - as a cyclist I've never seen one ridden safely in a bike path, and I don't think standing allows for quick enough braking for the average user. Not to mention that in my country, outside of a few city specific rental deals, all scooters are illegal for use in public - so literally everyone on one is a dangerous criminal.

frederikvs 6y ago

Do take into account that there are places where infrastructure is designed primarily around cars. This means a.o. that wherever you want to go, there'll be pretty good parking really close by. Combine that with a lack of proper bike infrastructure. No bike racks anywhere in sight, so you have to dump your bike on the pavement, hoping nobody will give it a shove because it's in their way. No bike lanes, or if there are, they have angles and corners that are not realistic to take on a bike. Corners that have you swerving into the opposite lane if you take them at anything above 15 km/h. In those situations taking the car for short distances becomes the convenient, fast and safe thing to do. P.S. from your name I suspect you're Dutch. In that case you don't even have to go far to find that sort of situation. I live in Belgium, which is generally considered to be a rather bike friendly country. I beg to differ. Everything I describe above applies, at least in a region of a few kilometers around my house. I can only assume it also applies elsewhere in Belgium.

throwaway2245 6y ago

I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in the world after Utrecht (also in the Netherlands). At a comparable train station in London, you would be lucky to find 10 bike parking spaces.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
> I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. Yet you will find many Dutchmen in this thread, including the comment you're replying to, that express that this is the first time in their lives they've given it thought. > I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in the world after Utrecht (also in the Netherlands). One of the many reasons I favor the skateboard over the bicycle — it joins me in the train. > At a comparable train station in London, you would be lucky to find 10 bike parking spaces. Well I have never been at a London train station. I've been at Belgian, German, and French ones, and I did not notice any particular difference that stood out.
jules 6y ago
At a busy time, the average stationsfietsenstalling is overfull and has -500 places, so that's why people complain :)
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  Of course! In London, it can just be expected that there is not anywhere appropriate to park. And, nobody cares to do anything about this, so it seems futile to complain.

jules 6y ago

Bike, walk, scooter, bus, train, car. Here's a breakdown (in million trips, 2016 numbers): Car as driver: 4854 Car as passenger: 2127 Train: 350 Bus/tram/metro: 407 Scooter: 163 Bike: 4041 Walk: 2702 Other: 242 Source: https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/auto-populairste-vervoermiddel-naar-werk-ook-voor-korte-stukjes~ad580edc/121361624/ https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/auto-populairste-vervoermiddel-na...

Someone 6y ago

> What other means of transportation would one use for short distances Uber (half-joking) In large parts of the USA, cities are cut into small parts by wide 50-mile per hour streets, it’s illegal (and dangerous to try, if not made impossible by barriers in the middle of the street) to cross streets between road crossings, road crossings are a quarter of a mile or so apart, and there aren’t any cycling facilities. Those wide roads often don’t have sidewalks. Also, as to ease of parking: the USA loves parking space, for cars (https://www.mba.org/documents/18806_research_riha_parking_report%20(1).pdf https://www.mba.org/documents/18806_research_riha_parking_re...) That makes cities larger, further discouraging cycling and walking.