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> Like healthcare, affordable housing, decent schools, and jobs that pay a living wage. Nothing crazy. These things were the bedrock of the Sanders campaign, bo

by flukus 6y ago

> Like healthcare, affordable housing, decent schools, and jobs that pay a living wage. Nothing crazy. These things were the bedrock of the Sanders campaign, both times. The hard one is jobs, it seems like acceptance that jobs aren't coming back might be the only solution. The worldwide trend for many decades has been people moving from rural to large urban areas with less and less people involved with primary production. It's really hard to see an end to that trend anytime soon. I don't know what form that acceptance will take, but I doubt Trump voters will be keen on UBI.

scruple 6y ago
I'm pro-UBI experiments, FWIW... But... > The hard one is jobs, it seems like acceptance that jobs aren't coming back might be the only solution. > I don't know what form that acceptance will take, but I doubt Trump voters will be keen on UBI. Is UBI some sort of admission then that people just will not have jobs that pay a living wage?
- flukus 6y ago
  Yes, living wage aside (a different if related problem) I really don't think there will be jobs, at least enough of them to support rural areas. If there are no jobs their then the only options are welfare in some form, relocation or just leaving them behind. I said UBI specifically because unemployment and most non-pension welfare implies there is a prospect of future employment.
  - scruple 6y ago
    What hope do those people have then? Especially for future generations? This is radical, right? We're saying that some generation that is alive today has to be the bridge between these two states. Nevermind that they're also reading about the obscene gains in wealth that Musk and Bezos, etc... are supposedly seeing in the meantime, which pushes them further in some direction that likely isn't healthy. To these folks, you're telling them that their kids are forbidden from earning a living the way that they did. That's not a tough sell, it's a non starter. They believe that their way of life is being attacked and has been taken from them. And a lot of them understand just enough to know that it's been / is being driven by politicians. So, essentially, it's being done by the same people who they would also be told to trust with their futures. That's rough.
    - flukus 6y ago
      > What hope do those people have then? Especially for future generations? None, that's what I'm getting at. These areas are in a long term terminal decline and there is no fixing it. It's an international economic trend, nothing US politicians do will make a difference. > That's not a tough sell, it's a non starter. The best you can do is manage the decline, anyone promising anything more is lying. All the last 4 years have done is squander the power they have as a political block, this is also waning.
      - scruple 6y ago
        Agreed completely.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Yes. And isn't that what we've been striving for? That we can eventually get technology to a point where we can magnify human productivity to the point that people barely need to work at all?
TheButlerian 6y ago
I have a better idea - these creatures are no more different than the beasts of burden of old...then the steam and int. combustion engines came so we put them down. Nobody is missing them, nobody will miss the current lot as well.

by flukus 6y ago

scruple 6y ago

I'm pro-UBI experiments, FWIW... But... > The hard one is jobs, it seems like acceptance that jobs aren't coming back might be the only solution. > I don't know what form that acceptance will take, but I doubt Trump voters will be keen on UBI. Is UBI some sort of admission then that people just will not have jobs that pay a living wage?

flukus 6y ago
Yes, living wage aside (a different if related problem) I really don't think there will be jobs, at least enough of them to support rural areas. If there are no jobs their then the only options are welfare in some form, relocation or just leaving them behind. I said UBI specifically because unemployment and most non-pension welfare implies there is a prospect of future employment.
- scruple 6y ago
  What hope do those people have then? Especially for future generations? This is radical, right? We're saying that some generation that is alive today has to be the bridge between these two states. Nevermind that they're also reading about the obscene gains in wealth that Musk and Bezos, etc... are supposedly seeing in the meantime, which pushes them further in some direction that likely isn't healthy. To these folks, you're telling them that their kids are forbidden from earning a living the way that they did. That's not a tough sell, it's a non starter. They believe that their way of life is being attacked and has been taken from them. And a lot of them understand just enough to know that it's been / is being driven by politicians. So, essentially, it's being done by the same people who they would also be told to trust with their futures. That's rough.
  - flukus 6y ago
    > What hope do those people have then? Especially for future generations? None, that's what I'm getting at. These areas are in a long term terminal decline and there is no fixing it. It's an international economic trend, nothing US politicians do will make a difference. > That's not a tough sell, it's a non starter. The best you can do is manage the decline, anyone promising anything more is lying. All the last 4 years have done is squander the power they have as a political block, this is also waning.
    - scruple 6y ago
      Agreed completely.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
Yes. And isn't that what we've been striving for? That we can eventually get technology to a point where we can magnify human productivity to the point that people barely need to work at all?

TheButlerian 6y ago

I have a better idea - these creatures are no more different than the beasts of burden of old...then the steam and int. combustion engines came so we put them down. Nobody is missing them, nobody will miss the current lot as well.