2 ms·

> Hunger and homelessness are still very real problems there. I totally agree with you there. Here in Germany, most homeless people could not even start to wor

> Hunger and homelessness are still very real problems there. I totally agree with you there. Here in Germany, most homeless people could not even start to work because you need a legal residence to get a bank account (getting paid in cash or via check is illegal in Germany), so they cannot accept the Arbeitslosengeld (Hartz IV). There are some initiatives in larger cities though where they provide shelters so that homeless people can have a legal postal address to get back on their feet.

pizza234 6y ago
> Here in Germany, most homeless people could not even start to work because you need a legal residence to get a bank account (getting paid in cash or via check is illegal in Germany), so they cannot accept the Arbeitslosengeld (Hartz IV). This is not specific of Germany/EU, and it's actually a principle of pretty much of any society. Countries can't just give away residence and money for free. If one belongs to EU, getting residence is easy; if not, the visa conditions apply. Therefore, you're talking about illegals (and/or refugees), which is a different matter. It's actually funny (in a tragic way) that countries like Germany or France took the highest number of refugees during the crisis (official stats: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...), and citizens still complain. In other words, ironically, countries may as well block entrance to asylum seekers, or throw homeless away out of the borders, and the public opinion will be negative regardless.
- cookiengineer 6y ago
  I was not talking about refugees in particular, but more in general about people that lost their home; implying that they had a German residence before, or were born in Germany and still have a German passport (aka Personalausweis). Those people that lost their home and would theoretically be willing to work still cannot; hence because they don't have a postal address which is required to get a bank account. Since the new Zahlungskontengesetz was established, all people that have a German citizenship have a right to get a Basiskonto [1] and banks must comply. Though the legal loophole here is that getting a bank account still requires a postal address. [1] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/zkg/__31.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/zkg/__31.html
adwn 6y ago
> so they cannot accept the Arbeitslosengeld (Hartz IV) That's incorrect. You can collect Arbeitslosengeld II ("Hartz IV") in cash at the local job center, no bank account required.
- cookiengineer 6y ago
  > You can collect Arbeitslosengeld II ("Hartz IV") in cash at the local job center, no bank account required. First off, that's not the default. So statistically this isn't true. Second: The Finanzamt and the GwG would have a different opinion about that, see [1] and [2] (pp. 10 and pp. 11) regarding that. I personally know somebody who did collect it in cash in the past, got sued by the Finanzamt, and lost in front of the court (ironically with a Bargeldstrafe). Also note that even the SGB 2 and 3 make this very clear, without room for interpretation, that you need a bank account [3] (pp. 43). The only theoretical exception would be if the costs for a bank account would require more than 100 bucks that you are legible to get in advance per month [4] (pp. 43a) but that's pretty much impossible to prove without having a bank account in the first place. [1] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__10.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__10.html [2] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__11.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__11.html [3] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__42.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__42.html [4] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__43a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__43a.html

pizza234 6y ago

> Here in Germany, most homeless people could not even start to work because you need a legal residence to get a bank account (getting paid in cash or via check is illegal in Germany), so they cannot accept the Arbeitslosengeld (Hartz IV). This is not specific of Germany/EU, and it's actually a principle of pretty much of any society. Countries can't just give away residence and money for free. If one belongs to EU, getting residence is easy; if not, the visa conditions apply. Therefore, you're talking about illegals (and/or refugees), which is a different matter. It's actually funny (in a tragic way) that countries like Germany or France took the highest number of refugees during the crisis (official stats: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...), and citizens still complain. In other words, ironically, countries may as well block entrance to asylum seekers, or throw homeless away out of the borders, and the public opinion will be negative regardless.

cookiengineer 6y ago
I was not talking about refugees in particular, but more in general about people that lost their home; implying that they had a German residence before, or were born in Germany and still have a German passport (aka Personalausweis). Those people that lost their home and would theoretically be willing to work still cannot; hence because they don't have a postal address which is required to get a bank account. Since the new Zahlungskontengesetz was established, all people that have a German citizenship have a right to get a Basiskonto [1] and banks must comply. Though the legal loophole here is that getting a bank account still requires a postal address. [1] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/zkg/__31.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/zkg/__31.html

adwn 6y ago

> so they cannot accept the Arbeitslosengeld (Hartz IV) That's incorrect. You can collect Arbeitslosengeld II ("Hartz IV") in cash at the local job center, no bank account required.

cookiengineer 6y ago
> You can collect Arbeitslosengeld II ("Hartz IV") in cash at the local job center, no bank account required. First off, that's not the default. So statistically this isn't true. Second: The Finanzamt and the GwG would have a different opinion about that, see [1] and [2] (pp. 10 and pp. 11) regarding that. I personally know somebody who did collect it in cash in the past, got sued by the Finanzamt, and lost in front of the court (ironically with a Bargeldstrafe). Also note that even the SGB 2 and 3 make this very clear, without room for interpretation, that you need a bank account [3] (pp. 43). The only theoretical exception would be if the costs for a bank account would require more than 100 bucks that you are legible to get in advance per month [4] (pp. 43a) but that's pretty much impossible to prove without having a bank account in the first place. [1] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__10.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__10.html [2] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__11.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2017/__11.html [3] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__42.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__42.html [4] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__43a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_2/__43a.html