5 ms·

i'm sorry, are you suggesting that we don't have free speech without 4chan?

by dmead 6y ago

salawat 6y ago
Your free speech is not what others call free speech, hate to tell ya.
- yurielt 6y ago
  A narrow definition of free speech and freedom of speech, is self defeating. Eh hate to tell ya.
nine_k 6y ago
Try saying something heavily against the current discourse, worse yet, in a way that the current discourse sees as unacceptable. For clarity, avoid any calls to violence. How many places would not deplatform you, suspend you, or at least downvote you into oblivion? Not many. Anonymous boards are some of such places. Even if you think that some people are patently wrong on the Internet, dangerously and irredeemably wrong, it's more useful to be aware that such people exist, than to hide this fact from yourself in order to have a quieter sleep. Freedom is, by definition, also freedom for those you disagree with, despise, even hate. If either side forces their (doubtlessly, virtuous and well-founded) views on the other (doubtlessly, misinformed and stubborn), I have a hard time calling it freedom. It's a standard ideological oppression.
- sofixa 6y ago
  Check out the paradox of tolerance and Goebbels's thoughts on the matter: https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/goebbels-on-the-reichstag/ https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/goebbels-on-the-reichst...
  - nine_k 6y ago
    This is a good quotation. One thing is just speaking, another, speaking and voting in a parliament. OTOH I like the idea that every new Parliament member should bring an idea which is currently illegal, and work on integrating it into the legal framework. Thus is how all change (to the bad and to the good the same) occurs in a peaceful way. It's interesting to note how many now-mainstream ideas were fringe 30 years ago, and outright scandalous 100-150 years ago: universal suffrage, social security, gay marriage, legal marijuana, etc.
- trianglem 6y ago
  You can say most things against the current discourse on many forums as long as it’s not illegal/viciously bigoted. I feel that amount of “freedom” is enough as any more freedom takes away others freedoms.
yurielt 6y ago
I didnt suggest that, you framing of my words id quite mmm peculiar to say the least, but I wont assume dishonesty from you. Rather what I said is that 4chan is probably the last big place that still resembles a little bit the freedom that internet was supposed to bring us. Yes it has a couple places some people dont like, but HEY we dont have to like them. WHat I said is that 4chan is the last place where people cna have an honest debate that rarely takes place anywhere on the internet. Is the last place that still has that "Hackerculture" that places like this were supposed to embody, you know sharing leaks, discussing what society looks with disdain and so on. 4chan is mm not like what you suggest a magical place that holds freedom of speech. However it is the last bastion of the visible freedom of speech that internet was supposed to bring. If 4chan dissapears fredom of expression will not suddenly disappear, however it would be a clear symptom of the fact that sillicon valley won. And we are back to manufactured consent, we are back to the days of tv when only a couple millonaires dictated what could be discussed and what could not be discussed. I dont want that simple as.

i'm sorry, are you suggesting that we don't have free speech without 4chan?

by dmead 6y ago

i'm sorry, are you suggesting that we don't have free speech without 4chan?

salawat 6y ago

Your free speech is not what others call free speech, hate to tell ya.

yurielt 6y ago
A narrow definition of free speech and freedom of speech, is self defeating. Eh hate to tell ya.

nine_k 6y ago

Try saying something heavily against the current discourse, worse yet, in a way that the current discourse sees as unacceptable. For clarity, avoid any calls to violence. How many places would not deplatform you, suspend you, or at least downvote you into oblivion? Not many. Anonymous boards are some of such places. Even if you think that some people are patently wrong on the Internet, dangerously and irredeemably wrong, it's more useful to be aware that such people exist, than to hide this fact from yourself in order to have a quieter sleep. Freedom is, by definition, also freedom for those you disagree with, despise, even hate. If either side forces their (doubtlessly, virtuous and well-founded) views on the other (doubtlessly, misinformed and stubborn), I have a hard time calling it freedom. It's a standard ideological oppression.

sofixa 6y ago
Check out the paradox of tolerance and Goebbels's thoughts on the matter: https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/goebbels-on-the-reichstag/ https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/goebbels-on-the-reichst...
- nine_k 6y ago
  This is a good quotation. One thing is just speaking, another, speaking and voting in a parliament. OTOH I like the idea that every new Parliament member should bring an idea which is currently illegal, and work on integrating it into the legal framework. Thus is how all change (to the bad and to the good the same) occurs in a peaceful way. It's interesting to note how many now-mainstream ideas were fringe 30 years ago, and outright scandalous 100-150 years ago: universal suffrage, social security, gay marriage, legal marijuana, etc.
trianglem 6y ago
You can say most things against the current discourse on many forums as long as it’s not illegal/viciously bigoted. I feel that amount of “freedom” is enough as any more freedom takes away others freedoms.

yurielt 6y ago

I didnt suggest that, you framing of my words id quite mmm peculiar to say the least, but I wont assume dishonesty from you. Rather what I said is that 4chan is probably the last big place that still resembles a little bit the freedom that internet was supposed to bring us. Yes it has a couple places some people dont like, but HEY we dont have to like them. WHat I said is that 4chan is the last place where people cna have an honest debate that rarely takes place anywhere on the internet. Is the last place that still has that "Hackerculture" that places like this were supposed to embody, you know sharing leaks, discussing what society looks with disdain and so on. 4chan is mm not like what you suggest a magical place that holds freedom of speech. However it is the last bastion of the visible freedom of speech that internet was supposed to bring. If 4chan dissapears fredom of expression will not suddenly disappear, however it would be a clear symptom of the fact that sillicon valley won. And we are back to manufactured consent, we are back to the days of tv when only a couple millonaires dictated what could be discussed and what could not be discussed. I dont want that simple as.