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Sadly I think this is at the heart of all of the recent political debates. That is, many folks on each side believe the other has broken the rules of engagemen

Sadly I think this is at the heart of all of the recent political debates. That is, many folks on each side believe the other has broken the rules of engagement. Many years ago I knew a congressperson who was deathly afraid of this happening (they pointed out a few "nuclear options" each party had for consolidating power). We're at a critical juncture where change is inevitable, let's hope we wind up in a better place than we were before.

dfxm12 6y ago
Can you elaborate on your understanding of all the sides involved and which rules they felt were broken?
- twelfthnight 6y ago
  In my mind, the main sides are the following: There's the Progressive Left who point at the established Democrats and the mainstream media for tactics used to hurt progressive causes (like Bernie's nomination) [1]. There's the general Left who point at Trump for his abuses of power and propaganda [2]. There's Trump and his supporters who point to election fraud [3]. There's the general Right who point to the Democrats for schemes to pack the court [4]. I don't want to suggest that all of these claims are equally valid, but I do believe supporters of these sides all strongly believe these claims and are willing to use them as justification for bending the rules. In fact, I believe it would be foolish not to, given that is seems clear no matter who your opponent is, they will certainly bend the rules given the chance. What I meant by "sadly" in my previous comment is I see the situation in the US in contrast to a government like New Zealand. In New Zealand opposing sides aren't focused on subverting the rules but instead sometimes work together to fuel positive outcomes for the whole country [5]. "Researchers have pored over the views of nearly 20,000 Kiwis and found, over the past decade at least, we haven't drifted toward polarised politics". [6] [1] https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1295957460726030337 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1295957460726030337 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2020/election-integrity/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2020/el... [4] https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pressure-on-democrats-commit-to-court-packing https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pressure-on-democrats-commi... [5] https://www.npr.org/2019/04/10/711820023/new-zealand-passes-law-banning-most-semi-automatic-weapons https://www.npr.org/2019/04/10/711820023/new-zealand-passes-... [6] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/partisan-politics-are-kiwi-voters-becoming-more-polarised/V76MAFQXJYDNUQN273PRZH4NTI/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/partisan-politics-are-kiwi-vot...

dfxm12 6y ago

Can you elaborate on your understanding of all the sides involved and which rules they felt were broken?

twelfthnight 6y ago
In my mind, the main sides are the following: There's the Progressive Left who point at the established Democrats and the mainstream media for tactics used to hurt progressive causes (like Bernie's nomination) [1]. There's the general Left who point at Trump for his abuses of power and propaganda [2]. There's Trump and his supporters who point to election fraud [3]. There's the general Right who point to the Democrats for schemes to pack the court [4]. I don't want to suggest that all of these claims are equally valid, but I do believe supporters of these sides all strongly believe these claims and are willing to use them as justification for bending the rules. In fact, I believe it would be foolish not to, given that is seems clear no matter who your opponent is, they will certainly bend the rules given the chance. What I meant by "sadly" in my previous comment is I see the situation in the US in contrast to a government like New Zealand. In New Zealand opposing sides aren't focused on subverting the rules but instead sometimes work together to fuel positive outcomes for the whole country [5]. "Researchers have pored over the views of nearly 20,000 Kiwis and found, over the past decade at least, we haven't drifted toward polarised politics". [6] [1] https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1295957460726030337 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1295957460726030337 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2020/election-integrity/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2020/el... [4] https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pressure-on-democrats-commit-to-court-packing https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pressure-on-democrats-commi... [5] https://www.npr.org/2019/04/10/711820023/new-zealand-passes-law-banning-most-semi-automatic-weapons https://www.npr.org/2019/04/10/711820023/new-zealand-passes-... [6] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/partisan-politics-are-kiwi-voters-becoming-more-polarised/V76MAFQXJYDNUQN273PRZH4NTI/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/partisan-politics-are-kiwi-vot...