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They want the government to replaced by the free market for other people. For them, it's government benefits all the way. The political scientist and author Fr

They want the government to replaced by the free market for other people. For them, it's government benefits all the way. The political scientist and author Frank Wilhoit talked about it in his works: > Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

brobdingnagians 6y ago
Errrhm, all the "protected classes" tend to come from the left wing ideologies. Sure, the right isn't what it used to be with Jeffersonian liberalism and free speech, but that quote could easily be interpreted to be about modern left by simply replacing "Conservatism" with "Liberalism'.
- crooked-v 6y ago
  'The right' as a term literally comes from supporters of the nobility and the king, the ultimate representation of someone who is protected but not bound by the law.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    They supported the French king against violent revolutionaries who executed him, imposed arbitrary cultural changes such as abandoning the calendar, and undertook a series of mass executions and purges until they were finally brought under control by Napoleon.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    The term “right” comes from the delegates seating in the French National Assembly during the revolution. Both the Left (Jacobins) and the Right (Girondists) voted together to behead the King and dispense with all noble priveledges and titles.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - 411111111111111 6y ago
      These people wanted to return to an aristocracy according to wikipedias history section of right wing, so his point stands I think. But I'm not knowledgeable about history, so do elaborate if you know details please.
      - DenisM 6y ago
        Girondists? Aristocracy?! No way. There were many royalists in France, but none in the National Assembly. The Girondists were considered right only because Jacobins were super left and ended up killing thousands of priests, what few nobles they could still find, tens of thousands of suspected royalists in mass executions, and eventually the Girondists themselves too for being too soft. The Girondists went to the guillotine singing The Marseilles! Certainly not the royalists that lot. I recommend the “Revolutions” podcast - about 30 hours worth of the French Revolution is better than any movie. Also the history of revolutions is very educational in this day and age. I for one hope we will never experience anything like it.
- chrisoverzero 6y ago
  > […] all the "protected classes" tend to come from the left wing ideologies. You don’t know what the term “protected class” means, and you should probably stop using it. “Woman” isn’t a protected class, “sex” is. “Christian” isn’t a protected class, “religion” is.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    To be fair, not all protected classes are symmetric: Veteran status and age over 40 are notable examples; you are absolutely permitted to discriminate against non-veterans and against people under 40.
- Gabriel_Martin 6y ago
  That doesn't seem to be what the quote is focused on though, where most efforts around "protected classes" come from. I think it does a rather good job highlighting it's point about conservative central hyperfocus on the supremacy of an in-group. Seems to be a pretty strong candidate for an underlying proposition at least, given some of the imagery we've seen over the past days.
- the-smug-one 6y ago
  What left wing ideologies would that be?
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    the Frankfurt school and critical theorists probably.
js2 6y ago
I'm pretty sure you're confusing two people with the same name. Francis Wilhoit the author/political scientist died in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_M._Wilhoit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_M._Wilhoit The quote you're referring to is from a comment on a web page left in 2018: https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288 https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progre... The name in the comment links to his site: https://www.broadheath.com/ https://www.broadheath.com/ He's a music composer.
chub500 6y ago
My perspective as a conservative: 1. These companies have every right to legally censor those they disagree with. 2. By exercising that right they put themselves at risk of being regulated more stringently (as utilities for example) when they demonstrate inelasticity in consumer choice. 3. I'd rather them not be treated as utilities because that hampers competition and thus impedes efficiency. 4. Your statement above is a farcical caricature of conservative ideology. Every product/service deserves a debate on what regulation is appropriate but as a society regulation only exists because bad actors necessitated its creation. No one wants car seats for their 8 year olds - we'd much rather be trusted to do the right thing.
ffggvv 6y ago
yes everyone who disagrees with you is a hypocrite and dumb and it’s impossible they may have actual reasoning behind their thoughts. you’re very empathetic
- carlisle_ 6y ago
  This comment is what is called "attacking the strawman".
- zucked 6y ago
  Not op - but please provide an explanation that counters the argument, then. Seriously, I would really like to understand how to come to terms with two world views that appear to be diametrically opposed within the same movement.
  - dd36 6y ago
    Most of them aren’t in it for ideology but the shared victimhood. They go along with the ideology because most of the donor funding wants the ideology to be Conservative. These people were New Deal Democrats before the civil rights movement.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The chronology of that association doesn’t work. Democrats were staunch opponents of civil rights until the 1960s. Even then, more republicans supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than Democrats. Even in 1976, Carter won with the traditional new deal coalition of southerners and northeast progressives. He won South Carolina by the same margin as Massachusetts. Even in 1980 against Reagan, Carter performed much closer to Reagan in the south than his overall national performance (outright winning Georgia, but coming close in most southern states). The current alignment of southern states with Republicans really dates to the late 1980s to early 1990s, when Republicans started flipping Senate seats in the south. Pinning this on Democrats’ support for the Civil Rights Act two decades before is one theory, but another is the industrialization of the southern economy. Southern New Deal Democrats represented agricultural states against protectionist northern industrial interests. But look at the economy of places like Georgia and Tennessee today. They’re built on low taxes and low regulation to draw companies away from high tax high regulation northern states. That started happening in the 1980s. Georgia is a really archetypal example of this: it’s probably the most openly pro-business big city in the country, and has a famously cooperative relationship between Atlanta Democratic mayors and Georgia Republican governors centered around attracting companies from places like New York: https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with-atlanta-mayor-vote-fabled-bipartisan-alliance-comes-end/5yX2nnMifu2RVBeOEjR46O/ https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with...
wzdd 6y ago
FYI, the political scientist Frank Wilhoit didn't write this, although he has written similar things. The quote was made by a different Frank Wilhoit on the Crooked Timber blog / community. Investigative work here: https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1183470106816331776 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1183470106816331776

brobdingnagians 6y ago

Errrhm, all the "protected classes" tend to come from the left wing ideologies. Sure, the right isn't what it used to be with Jeffersonian liberalism and free speech, but that quote could easily be interpreted to be about modern left by simply replacing "Conservatism" with "Liberalism'.

crooked-v 6y ago
'The right' as a term literally comes from supporters of the nobility and the king, the ultimate representation of someone who is protected but not bound by the law.
- rayiner 6y ago
  They supported the French king against violent revolutionaries who executed him, imposed arbitrary cultural changes such as abandoning the calendar, and undertook a series of mass executions and purges until they were finally brought under control by Napoleon.
- DenisM 6y ago
  The term “right” comes from the delegates seating in the French National Assembly during the revolution. Both the Left (Jacobins) and the Right (Girondists) voted together to behead the King and dispense with all noble priveledges and titles.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    These people wanted to return to an aristocracy according to wikipedias history section of right wing, so his point stands I think. But I'm not knowledgeable about history, so do elaborate if you know details please.
    - DenisM 6y ago
      Girondists? Aristocracy?! No way. There were many royalists in France, but none in the National Assembly. The Girondists were considered right only because Jacobins were super left and ended up killing thousands of priests, what few nobles they could still find, tens of thousands of suspected royalists in mass executions, and eventually the Girondists themselves too for being too soft. The Girondists went to the guillotine singing The Marseilles! Certainly not the royalists that lot. I recommend the “Revolutions” podcast - about 30 hours worth of the French Revolution is better than any movie. Also the history of revolutions is very educational in this day and age. I for one hope we will never experience anything like it.
chrisoverzero 6y ago
> […] all the "protected classes" tend to come from the left wing ideologies. You don’t know what the term “protected class” means, and you should probably stop using it. “Woman” isn’t a protected class, “sex” is. “Christian” isn’t a protected class, “religion” is.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  To be fair, not all protected classes are symmetric: Veteran status and age over 40 are notable examples; you are absolutely permitted to discriminate against non-veterans and against people under 40.
Gabriel_Martin 6y ago
That doesn't seem to be what the quote is focused on though, where most efforts around "protected classes" come from. I think it does a rather good job highlighting it's point about conservative central hyperfocus on the supremacy of an in-group. Seems to be a pretty strong candidate for an underlying proposition at least, given some of the imagery we've seen over the past days.
the-smug-one 6y ago
What left wing ideologies would that be?
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  the Frankfurt school and critical theorists probably.

js2 6y ago

I'm pretty sure you're confusing two people with the same name. Francis Wilhoit the author/political scientist died in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_M._Wilhoit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_M._Wilhoit The quote you're referring to is from a comment on a web page left in 2018: https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288 https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progre... The name in the comment links to his site: https://www.broadheath.com/ https://www.broadheath.com/ He's a music composer.

chub500 6y ago

My perspective as a conservative: 1. These companies have every right to legally censor those they disagree with. 2. By exercising that right they put themselves at risk of being regulated more stringently (as utilities for example) when they demonstrate inelasticity in consumer choice. 3. I'd rather them not be treated as utilities because that hampers competition and thus impedes efficiency. 4. Your statement above is a farcical caricature of conservative ideology. Every product/service deserves a debate on what regulation is appropriate but as a society regulation only exists because bad actors necessitated its creation. No one wants car seats for their 8 year olds - we'd much rather be trusted to do the right thing.

ffggvv 6y ago

yes everyone who disagrees with you is a hypocrite and dumb and it’s impossible they may have actual reasoning behind their thoughts. you’re very empathetic

carlisle_ 6y ago
This comment is what is called "attacking the strawman".
zucked 6y ago
Not op - but please provide an explanation that counters the argument, then. Seriously, I would really like to understand how to come to terms with two world views that appear to be diametrically opposed within the same movement.
- dd36 6y ago
  Most of them aren’t in it for ideology but the shared victimhood. They go along with the ideology because most of the donor funding wants the ideology to be Conservative. These people were New Deal Democrats before the civil rights movement.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    The chronology of that association doesn’t work. Democrats were staunch opponents of civil rights until the 1960s. Even then, more republicans supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than Democrats. Even in 1976, Carter won with the traditional new deal coalition of southerners and northeast progressives. He won South Carolina by the same margin as Massachusetts. Even in 1980 against Reagan, Carter performed much closer to Reagan in the south than his overall national performance (outright winning Georgia, but coming close in most southern states). The current alignment of southern states with Republicans really dates to the late 1980s to early 1990s, when Republicans started flipping Senate seats in the south. Pinning this on Democrats’ support for the Civil Rights Act two decades before is one theory, but another is the industrialization of the southern economy. Southern New Deal Democrats represented agricultural states against protectionist northern industrial interests. But look at the economy of places like Georgia and Tennessee today. They’re built on low taxes and low regulation to draw companies away from high tax high regulation northern states. That started happening in the 1980s. Georgia is a really archetypal example of this: it’s probably the most openly pro-business big city in the country, and has a famously cooperative relationship between Atlanta Democratic mayors and Georgia Republican governors centered around attracting companies from places like New York: https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with-atlanta-mayor-vote-fabled-bipartisan-alliance-comes-end/5yX2nnMifu2RVBeOEjR46O/ https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with...

wzdd 6y ago

FYI, the political scientist Frank Wilhoit didn't write this, although he has written similar things. The quote was made by a different Frank Wilhoit on the Crooked Timber blog / community. Investigative work here: https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1183470106816331776 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1183470106816331776